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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #541  
Old Yesterday, 03:22 AM
Roy Corduroy Roy Corduroy is offline
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Hi Wick,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Who wants to join a thread just to whine about it?
I do because I can only whine about "it" one thread at a time. I can't complain about the other twenty or thirty thousand Hutch threads I've sat through in the last ten years. You're right -"it"

Roy
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Last edited by Roy Corduroy : Yesterday at 03:46 AM.
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  #542  
Old Yesterday, 11:17 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post

Interestingly, it was Sunday morning when Hutchinson said he first alerted the police to his story. Had he read, or been made aware of this Lloyds article?
That would mean that the police deliberately lied about when he came to them and deliberately kept him from the inquest would it not ?
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  #543  
Old Yesterday, 02:06 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by packers stem View Post
That would mean that the police deliberately lied about when he came to them and deliberately kept him from the inquest would it not ?
Not knowing the circumstances makes it hard to judge. Police reports admit people were coming forward all the time with accusations and stories, we don't know what the exchange was between Hutchinson & this constable.

If the constable was on point duty (likely, if this was at the market), then he might have suggested Hutch go to the station himself. Though, if Hutch was working there at the time (also likely, as he was in no regular employment), then he can't just walk off the job when he chooses.
So, at the end of his work day he didn't go to the station after all, maybe he was too tired to be bothered.

The police can't be accused of secrecy if they have not yet received a statement from the witness.
There's nothing unique about a witness going to police with a, "I think I know something...." story.
The constable may have taken down some notes, we'll never know. Hutch did decide to go to the station the next day.
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  #544  
Old Yesterday, 06:06 PM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Not knowing the circumstances makes it hard to judge. Police reports admit people were coming forward all the time with accusations and stories, we don't know what the exchange was between Hutchinson & this constable.

If the constable was on point duty (likely, if this was at the market), then he might have suggested Hutch go to the station himself. Though, if Hutch was working there at the time (also likely, as he was in no regular employment), then he can't just walk off the job when he chooses.
So, at the end of his work day he didn't go to the station after all, maybe he was too tired to be bothered.

The police can't be accused of secrecy if they have not yet received a statement from the witness.
There's nothing unique about a witness going to police with a, "I think I know something...." story.
The constable may have taken down some notes, we'll never know. Hutch did decide to go to the station the next day.
Oh ok Jon
That works .....
If you believe he didn't see a police officer or didn't pass a police station between Friday morning and Sunday .

The most pressing need for the police in the area at that time was ????
To believe that this officer who Hutchinson allegedly approached would have let him out of his sight when half of his colleagues were supposedly interviewing everyone in Dorset street looking for even the slightest sniff of info is pure fantasy
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  #545  
Old Yesterday, 08:02 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by packers stem View Post
Oh ok Jon
That works .....
If you believe he didn't see a police officer or didn't pass a police station between Friday morning and Sunday .
No, between Friday morning & Sunday Hutch knew what everyone else knew (or thought they knew), Kelly was alive until after 9:00 am Friday morning.

The change in the supposed time of death was only published on Sunday morning.
Two other small points.
Beat constables do not work for Scotland Yard.
This beat constable may have not read the Lloyds article.

How do you suppose the ordinary beat constable receives updates on these murder inquiries?
Updates were posted on a noticeboard at the station. If he went on duty before the update was posted - he wouldn't know.
Alternately, if he didn't read the notice board - he wouldn't know.

Conversely, was the Lloyds article even true?
We can believe there was a change, because Dr. Bond's report to Anderson on Saturday suggested a time of death between 1:00 - 2:00 am. But was this adopted by Scotland Yard as a fact by Sunday?
If it was, then why does Macdonald call Maxwell to the inquest, or witnesses who heard a cry of murder between 3:30-4:00?
If she was dead by 2:00, none of that mattered, and neither would Hutchinson's story.
So it comes down to what did this beat constable believe on that Sunday?

We can't be 100% sure about anything. Therefore, we cannot so easily dismiss a witness because some modern theorist thinks "he didn't do the right thing".
We don't even know what the right thing to do was.
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  #546  
Old Yesterday, 09:54 PM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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I'm point out that both are the same level of credibility. If you religiously believe the Star, why not the Echo?
Yet, we have corroboration for the Echo account, but none for the Star.
But you choose the Star - why?

It was the first to report it.


You believe all press reports as 'factual'?

Jon, I said "Its a fact that George was reported to be discredited". How could you misread that? I cannot be clearer than that.
I stand by my posts.
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  #547  
Old Yesterday, 10:00 PM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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No, between Friday morning & Sunday Hutch knew what everyone else knew (or thought they knew), Kelly was alive until after 9:00 am Friday morning.
A few people claimed to have seen Mary Kelly after 11:45pm Thursday, and we do not have any evidence that any of them knew her or even what she looked like.

The last person who saw Mary that we know knew her well saw her at 11:45pm going into her room with Blotchy, thats the only sighting that has value. Maybe you should re-read how Maxwell was warned on the stand before you make the same mistakes.
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