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  #11  
Old 01-14-2019, 12:43 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APerno View Post
Are you stating that the market was only open one week a month, or that this particular individual only sold at this (continuously open) market one week a month?

If it is the former than that is interesting, if it is the latter not so much.
They sold their bulk,could be hundreds or thousands of boxes/bushels/barrels,then resupply.We do not know how their system/operation worked but 2x a month or several days in a row.The latter,the auction posters imply.

--

I tried to go by the inquests only and see what those implied.One thing is sure it did not say anything about a lunatic for ex.



------

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Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
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Last edited by Varqm : 01-14-2019 at 01:00 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:49 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APerno View Post
Are you stating that the market was only open one week a month, or that this particular individual only sold at this (continuously open) market one week a month?

If it is the former than that is interesting, if it is the latter not so much.
Basically one of these salesmen/representatives had fruit auctions on near/around the end of the month and 8th.


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Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
M. Pacana

Last edited by Varqm : 01-14-2019 at 09:55 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:12 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Originally Posted by Busy Beaver View Post
The Ripper was certainly someone who absolutely knew his killing zone and how to get out before getting caught. He knew how to dodge Joe Public getting up for work, who could be a potential witness and I think he had a pretty good idea of police beats and could have had an almost a cast-iron excuse or alibi to be told to move on if stopped by a member of London's finest. He quite possibly did have a job in a market or even a Railway station- somewhere, where the Killer could blend in with the crowds and not be remotely suspicious. There may even be a possibility that Jack worked outwith the London area, only coming back into Whitechapel on certain Weekends and Bank Holidays.
It was very dark,the bars were closed (except maybe Stride),the fixed points were gone,around the murder sites (except maybe
Chapman) it was mostly deserted - there were no newspaper reports,nobody saw a man walking away in an unusual manner after the murders.

I agree,he took precautions I think and some knowledge of police beats was part of them.After the "will you" in Chapman's case the man/killer did not talk when witnesses were around - Brown,Lawende and co., Cox, and obviously Lewis.In Kellys case I believe Blotchy returned,after casing Kelly/Miller's court,as Kelly's killer was an intruder/unexpected,approaching within a few feet/distance for Kelly to scream "Oh murder".

As posted before,the characteristics,in my opinion that somehow mattered,left by the killer,inquests only:

1) he killed between past midnight and 5:20 AM - Cadosche "I heard a voice say "No".

2) little taller than the victim,then compared to the
height of the victim.

3) not uncomfortable to be seen with the victims minutes before their murders.

4) Dates of the murders,end of the month or the 8th. - key

5) direction from Mitre Square to Goulston. - key

6) Cox's description.

7) experience with a knife and inside the body,animals and/or human - slaughtering/butchery/post mortem/vivisection

8) human and perhaps animal anatomical knowledge

9) Killed between Aug 31 - Nov 8-9 (arguably seen on the 8th by Cox,in my opinion Blotchy who returned as seen by Lewis)

10) Tied to Spitalfield/Whitechapel due to work,residence,etc..

11) killed within a square mile.


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Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
M. Pacana

Last edited by Varqm : 01-15-2019 at 03:16 PM.
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  #14  
Old 01-16-2019, 04:01 AM
Busy Beaver Busy Beaver is offline
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in my opinion Blotchy who returned as seen by Lewis)

I wonder, if Blotchy did return, it was because the heat was a bit too much in the Court ie: Cox, Prater and other residents coming and going at his first visit. It possible that he took the time to case the joint and feel at ease, especially since he was inside and felt comfortable coming back. That would make some sense because no-one saw MJK come out of her room after 1.00am and we know from Mary Cox that there was no light coming from MJK's room at 1.30am. So the only reasonable deduction is that Blotchy as JTR returned to MJK's room and as soon as she opened the door, he grabbed her and started to murder her in the usual JTR way. BUT- I don't think Blotchy was JTR.
He stood too much to lose when being seen by Cox as he walked up the Court with MJK. The killer must have surfaced some time after 3.00am, other wise I am certain that Cox could easily have been his next victim if he was earlier as she was in and out of the court between 1.00am and 3.00am. JTR killed whoever he came across first, unless Cox was standing somewhere that may have been too risky and also assuming she was soliciting. Prater heard the cry of "oh murder" after 3.30am. Did MJK come out of her room when Cox and Prater were snuggly tucked up, meet the Ripper on Dorset street, brought him home and was under attack in minutes. That is the real conundrum "Did Mary J Kelly come out of her room after 1.30am?" George Hutchison seems to think she did- Is there any paperwork about that records George describing What Mary was wearing on the morning he met her? Would the Police even think of asking him that? Mary Cox gave a good detailed description of both Blotchy and Kelly.
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  #15  
Old 01-16-2019, 01:09 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Beaver View Post
in my opinion Blotchy who returned as seen by Lewis)

I wonder, if Blotchy did return, it was because the heat was a bit too much in the Court ie: Cox, Prater and other residents coming and going at his first visit. It possible that he took the time to case the joint and feel at ease, especially since he was inside and felt comfortable coming back. That would make some sense because no-one saw MJK come out of her room after 1.00am and we know from Mary Cox that there was no light coming from MJK's room at 1.30am. So the only reasonable deduction is that Blotchy as JTR returned to MJK's room and as soon as she opened the door, he grabbed her and started to murder her in the usual JTR way. BUT- I don't think Blotchy was JTR.
He stood too much to lose when being seen by Cox as he walked up the Court with MJK. The killer must have surfaced some time after 3.00am, other wise I am certain that Cox could easily have been his next victim if he was earlier as she was in and out of the court between 1.00am and 3.00am. JTR killed whoever he came across first, unless Cox was standing somewhere that may have been too risky and also assuming she was soliciting. Prater heard the cry of "oh murder" after 3.30am. Did MJK come out of her room when Cox and Prater were snuggly tucked up, meet the Ripper on Dorset street, brought him home and was under attack in minutes. That is the real conundrum "Did Mary J Kelly come out of her room after 1.30am?" George Hutchison seems to think she did- Is there any paperwork about that records George describing What Mary was wearing on the morning he met her? Would the Police even think of asking him that? Mary Cox gave a good detailed description of both Blotchy and Kelly.
personally I don't think mary went out after Blotchy. all the circs point to not:
already drunk
more ale in the pot
bad night, fire going
singing to blotchy, seems very comfy with him
food in belly
looking forward to lord mayers show

and I highly doubt blotchy, if he was the ripper, would risk losing his prey by leaving.

no, it was blotchy, or stalker hutch, just possibly mary went out later and ran into the Bethnal Green botherer.
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #16  
Old 01-17-2019, 02:09 AM
Busy Beaver Busy Beaver is offline
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Then who on earth was Blotchy? Would he have gone out and come back again? It doesn't quite follow what I would have expected The Ripper to have done. I would have thought that if Blotchy was the Ripper, he would have got Mary comfortable and then started to kill her, but at 1.00am she is still singing. It's not until 1.30am that the light goes out. Could Blotchy have started to sober up by then and have been ready to kill? Mary was after all found on the bed in her undergarments, so she had the time to remove outer clothing. That kind of makes more sense, and the cry of murder at 4.00am could well have come from anywhere and not be related at all.
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  #17  
Old 01-17-2019, 04:25 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Beaver View Post
Then who on earth was Blotchy? Would he have gone out and come back again? It doesn't quite follow what I would have expected The Ripper to have done. I would have thought that if Blotchy was the Ripper, he would have got Mary comfortable and then started to kill her, but at 1.00am she is still singing. It's not until 1.30am that the light goes out. Could Blotchy have started to sober up by then and have been ready to kill? Mary was after all found on the bed in her undergarments, so she had the time to remove outer clothing. That kind of makes more sense, and the cry of murder at 4.00am could well have come from anywhere and not be related at all.
Hi busy
If blotchy was her killer and the ripper, and i think its a good chance he was, he would not have left once he had her right where he wanted her. An attractive drunk prostitute with her own place! I mean thats the rippers dream right?
No way he would leave.

I think he was enjoying it, savoring it. And or waiting for things to die down a little bit around the court as it seems there was a bit od activity. He had a pot of ale perhaps he was waiting for her to get drunker and or pass out?

Either way it seems to me neither of them were planning on,leaving any time soon.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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