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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

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  #71  
Old 07-02-2018, 01:37 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Any textual differences are down to sub-editors on the various newspapers.

See The Pall Mall Gazette and St. James' Gazette introductions. Both said the same thing, the latter adding the "of a news agency" detail.

As to differences of detail in the reporting of GH's story—

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  #72  
Old 07-02-2018, 01:58 PM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
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Sorry to be pedantic about the fixed point Pc. But after the Chapman murder, Henry Holland encountered a fixed point Pc around six in the morning near Spitafields market I believe. So if that Pc wasn't on fixed point between the hours of 9 pm and 1 in the morning perhaps others weren't. Are there any records for fixed-point duty times?
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  #73  
Old 07-02-2018, 02:36 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
Sorry to be pedantic about the fixed point Pc. But after the Chapman murder, Henry Holland encountered a fixed point Pc around six in the morning near Spitafields market I believe. So if that Pc wasn't on fixed point between the hours of 9 pm and 1 in the morning perhaps others weren't. Are there any records for fixed-point duty times?
Thats ok, questions are good.
This well known example has always been a problem. A Fixed Point station at the Spitalfields Market is not listed in the 1889 Police Book. Though it is known that short-term or periodic F.P. locations did occur from time to time that were not deemed permanent, so not listed in the official record.

There is another consideration. Police were often assigned to private property if the owner was willing to pay for that special service. If this was the case at Spitalfields Market then this is another reason why the spot is not on the official list.
Spitalfields Market may have payed the Met. to assign them a constable on market days. Which would answer the question as to why he did not leave when Henry Holland approached him about Chapmans murder. This constable would also work times requested by the Market, which will be different to the regular police times for a F.P. assignment.

We do know other constables did leave their F.P. location when the need arose. Take for example the Stride murder, there was a constable on F.P. duty on Commercial Rd. at Christian St. (which is listed in the 1889 Police Book) and he left his assigned spot when his presence was needed.
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Last edited by Wickerman : 07-02-2018 at 02:41 PM.
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  #74  
Old 07-02-2018, 03:00 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Thanks Jon, very interesting.
Weren't the pubs around the market allowed to open outside normal licencing hours, to accommodate the early start of market workers? If so, could the fixed point duty also be extended in the area to cover this?
Otherwise, I have read that fixed points were manned from 9am to 1am.

With regard to the PC at the Christian St FP, I've always wondered if he had just finished duty when he learned of Stride's murder, so felt free to leave.
Anyway, I believe that if a pc had to leave his fixed point (and murder is a pretty good reason) then the next beat pc to arrive there was supposed to man it until he returned.
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  #75  
Old 07-02-2018, 03:22 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Any textual differences are down to sub-editors on the various newspapers.

See The Pall Mall Gazette and St. James' Gazette introductions. Both said the same thing, the latter adding the "of a news agency" detail.

As to differences of detail in the reporting of GH's story—

Attachment 18706
Thankyou Simon.
So your main concern was just the description, not the statement as a whole.

Your middle column, you entitled Press Report 13-11-88, seems to refer to what reads like an official Scotland Yard press release. This sentence is brief, terse and limited in its detail. It appeared in most morning papers on the 13th which indicates they all obtained the same release at the same time.
Nearly all press versions worked this release into a paragraph of their own individual creation, which was also normal.
It seems to be the official 'wanted' release by Scotland Yard, likely released through an agency which was their normal procedure.

So the story goes that a Central News reporter tracked Hutchinson down at his Victoria Home address and took a statement from him which then appeared the next morning. Which leads us to your 3rd column entitled, Press Reports 14-11-88.

Yes we see differences.
Which is not surprising given that Hutchinson had been interrogated by Abberline - after giving his first statement (column 1) but before giving his 2nd statement (column 3).
Abberline would naturally draw out further details from the witness. That is the purpose of an interrogation officer. Even the witness comes away realizing more of what he saw that he originally thought.

But I take it you think something is amiss?
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  #76  
Old 07-02-2018, 03:59 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Amiss?

Yes. I don't believe a word of it.
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  #77  
Old 07-02-2018, 04:36 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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And your reason would be?
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  #78  
Old 07-02-2018, 04:44 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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It was only in the Wednesday 14th November version [The Times] that Hutchinson was named and able to—

“. . . fix the time, as it was between 10 and 5 minutes to 2 o'clock as I came by Whitechapel Church. When I left the corner of Miller's-court the clock struck 3 o'clock.”

The Times article concluded—

“The description of the murderer given by Hutchinson agrees in every particular with that already furnished by the police and published yesterday [Tuesday] morning.”

Evening News, Tuesday 13th November 1888—

“Another Statement Confirming One Made On Monday.”

Belfast Newsletter, 14th November—

"This description exactly tallies with one already furnished to the police."

Daily News, 14th November—

"It will be observed that the description of the supposed murderer given by Hutchinson agrees in every particular with that already furnished by the police, and published yesterday morning."

The police were using George Hutchinson to corroborate himself.

Last edited by Simon Wood : 07-02-2018 at 04:46 PM. Reason: spolling mistook
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  #79  
Old 07-02-2018, 04:59 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Thanks Jon, very interesting.
Weren't the pubs around the market allowed to open outside normal licencing hours, to accommodate the early start of market workers? If so, could the fixed point duty also be extended in the area to cover this?
Otherwise, I have read that fixed points were manned from 9am to 1am.
If flexible hours were adopted for certain areas they will not be listed in the Police Book.
I also have the entry you mention (9 am to 1 am), that would be 16 hours, likely a misprint. Stewart Evans provided me with that, and also this:



The above is taken from a multi-page listing which identified every street corner in every division where a F.P. was designated.
Quote:
With regard to the PC at the Christian St FP, I've always wondered if he had just finished duty when he learned of Stride's murder, so felt free to leave.
Anyway, I believe that if a pc had to leave his fixed point (and murder is a pretty good reason) then the next beat pc to arrive there was supposed to man it until he returned.
That sounds familiar, but it would not apply to a constable on private assignment.
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  #80  
Old 07-02-2018, 05:15 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
It was only in the Wednesday 14th November version [The Times] that Hutchinson was named and able to—

“. . . fix the time, as it was between 10 and 5 minutes to 2 o'clock as I came by Whitechapel Church. When I left the corner of Miller's-court the clock struck 3 o'clock.”

The Times article concluded—

“The description of the murderer given by Hutchinson agrees in every particular with that already furnished by the police and published yesterday [Tuesday] morning.”

Evening News, Tuesday 13th November 1888—

“Another Statement Confirming One Made On Monday.”

Belfast Newsletter, 14th November—

"This description exactly tallies with one already furnished to the police."

Daily News, 14th November—

"It will be observed that the description of the supposed murderer given by Hutchinson agrees in every particular with that already furnished by the police, and published yesterday morning."

The police were using George Hutchinson to corroborate himself.
The "furnished yesterday morning" is referring to the Scotland Yard press release you had in your 2nd column.
It isn't the police who are using Hutchinson to corroborate himself, this is the opinion of the press.

The press are drawing attention to the obvious similarities between the description given by Hutchinson on the 14th, with the description from an unidentified source published the previous day, which came from the police.
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