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  #81  
Old 05-04-2013, 04:06 AM
Cogidubnus Cogidubnus is offline
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Hi Rivkah

In general terms I was agreeing with you...perhaps I shouldn't bother in future

All the best

Dave
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  #82  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:59 AM
DVV DVV is offline
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If Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare he wouldn't have the forehead of Shakespeare.
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  #83  
Old 05-09-2013, 03:07 PM
Smoking Joe Smoking Joe is offline
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Personally I find the arguments put forward suggesting Shakespeare not only wasnt the author of all the works accredited to him,but COULDNT have been ,quite convincing. Mark Twain's views on the issue are well worth reading,and its difficult to argue with his logic imo. However its not really important who the author/authors were,its the content that matters ,and the exploitation ,beauty and richness of the English language,still available for the public to enjoy despite the present day bastardisation of the language, by Americans in particular,and by everyone else in general.
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  #84  
Old 05-09-2013, 06:05 PM
Cogidubnus Cogidubnus is offline
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Default Bastardisation?

Think that's a bit strong Joe...The simple fact is that languages evolve...it's their nature...and you don't suppose English is almost a universal tongue because it's spoken in much of Britain do you?

Moreover many of the North American usages some people imagine are "bastardisations" are in fact examples of older usages now dead in Britain...

All the best

Dave
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  #85  
Old 05-09-2013, 06:39 PM
Smoking Joe Smoking Joe is offline
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Cogidubnus.
I was writing a little tongue in cheek,not meaning to give offense.Ive nothing against Americans -in fact Im married to one.The bastardisation (which strictly speaking isnt bastardisation) is the modern use by the younger generation of words such as kewl, etc and written expressions on the internet pmsl-ffs- and of course "gangbanga" language(if that is the correct term)and so on and so forth.
Universal language?If it is its not because of the fact its spoken in Britain. Its because,in part ,its one of the simplest,easiest languages in the world,both in speech and script. Britains empire contributed to its spread obviously.I wasnt trying to suggest that anything that came from Britain ,must by virtue of that fact be superior .Though it probabley is.
Anyway no offence intended
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  #86  
Old 05-09-2013, 09:57 PM
Cogidubnus Cogidubnus is offline
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Hi Joe

No offence taken...Firstly I'm a Brit myself...and hopefully a realistic one! But be aware that many folk on here are left pond and might well look askance!

My contention would be that it's U.S.English the world is eagerly learning to speak...the British Empire obviously spread the useage initially, but it's continuation as an international language is really down to US influence!

It certainly isn't one of the simplest languages in the world...in it's irregularity of construction it's probably one of the most difficult, and persons trying to learn it as a second tongue will probably confirm this...

All the best

Dave
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  #87  
Old 06-02-2013, 04:04 PM
Sally Sally is offline
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Yes indeed, languages evolve - every year a whole raft of new words make it into the OED and another raft of words fade into obscurity.

The words that tend to change are those pertaining to culture - like new words 'downlink' 'defriend' etc. Words petaining to environment, human interaction - immovables basically - tend to remain pretty constant.

That's why we can (mostly) understand Shakespeare after 400 years.

And the idea of 'bastardising' English is hilarious - English isn't a 'real' language at all - it's a mish-mash of several itself; so the idea that it can be 'bastardised' is highly questionable.
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  #88  
Old 06-02-2013, 05:57 PM
Phil H Phil H is offline
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To re-ignite the original theme of this discussion, I have delved quite deeply into the subject over recent years. To me the answer is quite clear:

* the plays and poems contain Warwickshire "dialect" words for many things and William was a Warwickshire lad;

* the works can be related closely to events in William Shakespeare's life;

* Ovid's Metamorphoses is known to have been one of Shakespeare's favorite works/sources;

* there is a copy of Hall's chronicles (a source for the History Plays) that is annotated in a hand acknowledged by experts to be Shakespeare's;

* Honigmann has shown that the "lost years" can be explained by a sojourn in Lancashire which connects William to Lord Strange (later the Earl of Derby)and his acting company;

* many activities mentioned in the plays, and the use of metaphor related to them, would have been familiar to Shakespeare - such as glove-making and butchery;

* William's catholic upbringing can be related to some of the approaches to authority etc taken in his plays;

* the so-called insights into the noble life-style can be explained readily by, at the outset his relation to the Arden family and later to his exposure to the royal court and courtiers;

* Shakespeare was alive through the time his plays appeared (which marlow, as an example, was not);

* William's acting associates published the first folio in his name - why do so if they did not know and recognise him as the author?

* disputes about different signatures/spellings of the name, simply reflect the custom of the day which did not have recognised or consistent spelling.

I reject all the complex ideas of Baconian codes (no one agrees on any) or other "games", with William as a cover for a more "noble" author, as ridiculous and impractical.

To me there is no question: William Shakespeare of Stratford was one and the same as "William Shakespeare" the playwright.

Phil
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  #89  
Old 06-02-2013, 07:54 PM
Sally Sally is offline
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Quote:
To me there is no question: William Shakespeare of Stratford was one and the same as "William Shakespeare" the playwright.
To me neither, Phil.

To me, such 'theories' are the equivalent, say, of people who claim that Vincnt Van Gogh was Jack the Ripper - sensationalist twaddle.

Oh attention-seeking, headlin-grabbing revisionism.

It does get my goat.
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  #90  
Old 06-02-2013, 08:20 PM
Cogidubnus Cogidubnus is offline
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Default Ditto

And my Capra aegagrus hircus too!

All the best

Dave
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