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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1151  
Old 10-25-2017, 07:02 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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It was only remnants of a chemise and it wasn't on the body except to cover the neck wound.

The Times, Wednesday, September 25th, 1889

The blood had oozed from the cut surface of the neck. Over the surface of the neck and the right shoulder were the remnants of what had been a chemise. It was of common length and such a size as would be worn by a woman of similar build to the trunk found. It had been torn down the front, and had been cut from the front of the armholes on each side. The cuts had apparently been made with a knife. The chemise was bloodstained nearly all over, from being wrapped over the back surface of the neck. There was no clotted blood on it. I could find no distinguishing mark on the chemise.

Lloyd's Weekly, September 29, 1889

Covering the cut surface of the neck and right shoulder were the remnants of what had been a chemise, of common make, and of such a size as would be worn by a woman of similar build to the trunk found. It had been torn down the front, and had been cut out from the front of the armholes on each side. The cuts appeared to have been made with a knife. The chemise was blood-stained nearly all over, I think from being wrapped over the cut surface of the neck. There was no clotted blood on it, and no sign of arterial spurting. I could find no distinguishing mark on the chemise.
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  #1152  
Old 10-25-2017, 07:23 PM
drstrange169 drstrange169 is offline
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Thanks Jerry, that pretty much seals it as a chemise not a nightshirt.

From those descrition, it seems it's purpose was to staunch blood flow from the neck.
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  #1153  
Old 10-25-2017, 09:51 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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would prostitutes wear a chemise under their clothes? what about girls in a brothel? I imagine a chemise would be like their uniform? I think it's long been suggested the Whitehall victim might have worked in one because of the hands.
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  #1154  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:36 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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To be as clear as I can - it cannot be established whether the chemise the Pinchins Street torso was found with was a garment you would sleep in or not. Maybe it was, maybe it was not.
For the garment to fit in with my thoughts, it need actually not have been used as nightwear.
I am absolutely certain that I am not going to be able to prove that it was used the way I think it may have been used, and equally certain that it cannot be disproven that it was.
Regardless of this, it fits in with what I have in mind.

Last edited by Fisherman : 10-25-2017 at 10:50 PM.
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  #1155  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:24 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
would prostitutes wear a chemise under their clothes?
Yes, and so would women of all walks of life and all social classes. Both Stride and Eddowes were wearing chemises under layers of other clothing when found. Chemises were practical undergarments, pure and simple.
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  #1156  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:26 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Yes, and so would women of all walks of life and all social classes. Both Stride and Eddowes were wearing chemises under layers of other clothing when found. Chemises were practical undergarments, pure and simple.
Yes, the kind of chemise Stride and Eddowes were wearing were practical undergarments. And other chemises were nightgowns.
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  #1157  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:32 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Yes, the kind of chemise Stride and Eddowes were wearing were practical undergarments. And other chemises were nightgowns.
How many lower class East End women had the luxury of specially designated nightwear?
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  #1158  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:39 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Regardless of this, it fits in with what I have in mind.
What I have in mind is that, having killed, the killer removed the victim's outer clothing for disposal, tore off the undergarment she was already wearing prior to cutting her up, and used the cloth as an improvised wrapper/bandage.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 10-25-2017 at 11:43 PM.
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  #1159  
Old 10-26-2017, 12:15 AM
drstrange169 drstrange169 is offline
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>>Yes, the kind of chemise Stride and Eddowes were wearing were practical undergarments. And other chemises were nightgowns.<<

Sorry but, no.

Chemises were chemises, nightgowns were nightgowns, two totally different garments.

Some men, so I'm told, sleep in there jocks, that doesn't make jocks, pyjamas.

Whether the chemise belonged to the killer, I have no opinion on, but if it was a chemise it wasn't a nightgown and visa versa.
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  #1160  
Old 10-26-2017, 12:36 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
What I have in mind is that, having killed, the killer removed the victim's outer clothing for disposal, tore off the undergarment she was already wearing prior to cutting her up, and used the cloth as an improvised wrapper/bandage.
That is possible. The scenario that offers itself up in such a case is that the killer cut the victim up, leaving the head and arms on the torso, and then, at a later stage, just before he set off to dump the torso, he took the head off and used the chemise to stop whatever bleeding there could have been from the severed neck a body that had been emptied of blood.

I find that an odd thing to do, since there would not have been any substantial bleeding anyway, but the sources seem to tell us that this was what happened nevertheless.
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