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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Catherine Eddowes

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  #1  
Old 03-09-2018, 06:22 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Default Eddowes in Wandsworth Prison

On the 17th August, 1878, a Catherine Conway or Eddowes, a laundress aged 37, was sentenced at Southwark to 7 days in Wandsworth Prison for being 'drunk in a thoro'fare'. Under 'Other Marks' was recorded:

"Scar forehead from blow & right eyelid from cut. Lost two front teeth upper jaw."

2 previous convictions were noted, the most recent being:

"6.8.77 3 days"


On 6th August, 1877 a 36-year-old washerwoman named Kate Eddowes, was convicted at Lambeth of 'Drunk &c'. She received a 14 day sentence which she served in Wandsworth with her unnamed child. Under 'Other Marks' was recorded:

'Scar right eyebrow'.

13 previous convictions were noted, the most recent being:

"23.8.76 3 Mo"


There are a few discrepancies between the two records, not least being the number of previous convictions, but I think this is likely to be 'our' Kate Eddowes.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 03-09-2018 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:38 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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I don't think there is any doubt that you found 'our' Catherine Eddowes in both cases, Gary?
The unnamed child you mention tallies well with Catherine giving birth to a son named Frederick Willliam in 1877.
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:49 PM
Ginger Ginger is offline
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What a remarkable find!
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  #4  
Old 03-09-2018, 04:14 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
I don't think there is any doubt that you found 'our' Catherine Eddowes in both cases, Gary?
The unnamed child you mention tallies well with Catherine giving birth to a son named Frederick Willliam in 1877.
Hi Debs,

There's no doubt in my mind. The thing that bugs me, though, is the discrepancy between the 13 and 2 previous convictions.

As you say, the child who entered Wandsworth with her must have been the infant Frederick.

Gary
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Old 03-09-2018, 05:18 PM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
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Nice work.
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Old 03-09-2018, 06:01 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Very sweet find.

Thanks for sharing.
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Old 03-09-2018, 06:47 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Good stuff!

If I stare for long enough at Foster's mortuary sketches, I can almost convince myself that they show what might be an inch-long scar touching the outside of Kate's right eyebrow.
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Old 03-10-2018, 01:17 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
Hi Debs,

There's no doubt in my mind. The thing that bugs me, though, is the discrepancy between the 13 and 2 previous convictions.

As you say, the child who entered Wandsworth with her must have been the infant Frederick.

Gary
Hi Gary
I mentioned Charlotte Eddowes on forums because I wondered if there was some sort of confusion of the two women regarding previous records and convictions? It's probably unlikely but the two women do have things in common. Both were arrested for public order offences in the street, one in Lambeth one in Southwark. Charlotte was the same age as Catherine and although more petite; Charlotte also had a letter tattooed on her left arm and a scar (which I can't determine the exact whereabouts of...it looks like it says scar on her cherry!). Charlotte was sent to convicted one month before Catherine in 1878 and also in 1876.

I was wondering if there was a chance that officials flicking through registers for previous court appearances maybe Charlotte's previous tally brought Eddowes up or down? Looking at Charlotte's convictions though she has 3, so the confusion idea maybe doesn't follow...
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Last edited by Debra A : 03-10-2018 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:00 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
Hi Gary
I mentioned Charlotte Eddowes on forums because I wondered if there was some sort of confusion of the two women regarding previous records and convictions? It's probably unlikely but the two women do have things in common. Both were arrested for public order offences in the street, one in Lambeth one in Southwark. Charlotte was the same age as Catherine and although more petite; Charlotte also had a letter tattooed on her left arm and a scar (which I can't determine the exact whereabouts of...it looks like it says scar on her cherry!). Charlotte was sent to convicted one month before Catherine in 1878 and also in 1876.

I was wondering if there was a chance that officials flicking through registers for previous court appearances maybe Charlotte's previous tally brought Eddowes up or down? Looking at Charlotte's convictions though she has 3, so the confusion idea maybe doesn't follow...
Hi Debs,

It's possible, I suppose, but Charlotte was recorded as 'Buckingham or Eddows' and as you say she was a smaller woman with a scar on her right cheek (I hope!) and something else on her left arm. (Is that a T for tattoo or an S for scar?). Presumably the previous convictions info came via the court.

I did wonder whether the Conway/Eddowes confusion might have lead to Kate's tally being understated in '78.

Gary
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:18 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
Hi Debs,

It's possible, I suppose, but Charlotte was recorded as 'Buckingham or Eddows' and as you say she was a smaller woman with a scar on her right cheek (I hope!) and something else on her left arm. (Is that a T for tattoo or an S for scar?). Presumably the previous convictions info came via the court.

I did wonder whether the Conway/Eddowes confusion might have lead to Kate's tally being understated in '78.

Gary
The 1876 conviction for Charlotte looked like it described a 'scar on right cherry'!
It also said she had a 'letter S' on her left arm. I imagine that the 'letter' would be a tattoo similar to Catherine's 'TC'
Charlotte had 3 previous conviction in 76 but doesn't seem to have any recorded in 78 so maybe they just weren't that reliable at recording everything previous accurately?
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Last edited by Debra A : 03-10-2018 at 03:21 AM.
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