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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #681  
Old 10-30-2018, 06:53 AM
Batman Batman is offline
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If so, then his first thought was above waist. Below it seems to have been an afterthought. A very odd lust murderer.
What's odd about the learning and escalation of lust murderers whose initially sexual homicides may not resemble later ones given 50% experiment with MO and signature?

Nothing is odd in that respect beyond they type of crime that it is. Rare in other words. Not odd.
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  #682  
Old 10-30-2018, 06:55 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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The lack of attention to their sexual organs is indeed a problem for someone claiming that what conclusively links them is that they were both clearly 'lust murders'.

But there is no lack of attention to their sexual organs, Gary.

You can`t kill someone quickly and quietly by stabbing their sexual organs multiple times.
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  #683  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:17 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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But there is no lack of attention to their sexual organs, Gary.

You can`t kill someone quickly and quietly by stabbing their sexual organs multiple times.
Correct. So you cover Tabram's upper body with 37 stabs ranging across her upper body/neck, then finish (or previously having finished) her off with a more efficient weapon and only then get down to what you're really all about and make a small cut to her lower part/private part. (I don't think the word vagina is ever used, is it?) 38:1 is a lack of attention in my book.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 10-30-2018 at 07:22 AM.
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  #684  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:33 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Correct. So you cover Tabram's upper body with 37 stabs ranging across her upper body/neck,
Not forgetting the stomach.. and the stomach, which was perfectly healthy, was penetrated in six places

Quote:
then finish (or previously having finished) her off with a more efficient weapon and only then get down to what you're really all about and make a small cut to her lower part/private part. (I don't think the word vagina is ever used, is it?) 38:1 is a lack of attention in my book.
Do we know when the stab to her lower part occurred ?
Like the William Grant attack on Alice Graham, the lower wound may have been the first would inflicted. (Alice Grahams`s internal injury was reported in the press as an abdomen wound, until the Thames Police Court hearing when we find out it was an internal stab.
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  #685  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:42 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Not forgetting the stomach.. and the stomach, which was perfectly healthy, was penetrated in six places


Indeed. And we don't know whether her lower clothing was lifted to gain access to her stomach.



Do we know when the stab to her lower part occurred ?
Like the William Grant attack on Alice Graham, the lower wound may have been the first would inflicted. (Alice Grahams`s internal injury was reported in the press as an abdomen wound, until the Thames Police Court hearing when we find out it was an internal stab.
No we don't. But the killer was obviously 6 times less interested in her lower part than he was her stomach. Perhaps the stomach counts as a middle sexual organ?
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  #686  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:43 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Not forgetting the stomach.. and the stomach, which was perfectly healthy, was penetrated in six places
That's still very much in the upper half of the body, well away from the private parts.
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  #687  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:47 AM
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I'll ask this again...

How many cuts did Eddowes have on the lower part of her body compared to the upper part of her body?
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  #688  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:50 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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The less complex explanation is one person, not many people. So even parsimony works and it can still explain all the evidence. Basically, there are no barriers preventing the one hand for being responsible for them all. What there appears to be is some doubtful accounts of who they were attacked by.
  1. Chronology fits in escalation model.
  2. Time fits.
  3. Location fits.
  4. Victimology fits.
  5. Absense of similar crimes even elsewhere in Whitechapel except for the Whitechapel murders.
  6. Smith and Tabram's offenders not caught.
  7. Smith and Tabram's offenders don't offend again.
  8. All involve attacks on their vaginas.
  9. Some investigators linked them to JtR and some of those were investigators of Smith's homicide.

I am sure there are more points but what this seems like is JtR at the start learning how to carry out his crimes. Diving straight into Nichols isn't something we even see by comparisons to modern day rippers. They usually have crimes going on before that which sometimes often don't strongly resemble the later crimes as they evolve MO and signature (50% of SKs experiment with these).
If 6 is true then 7 can’t possibly be known.
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  #689  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:51 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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I'll ask this again...

How many cuts did Eddowes have on the lower part of her body compared to the upper part of her body?
Was Tabram stabbed in the face? (Not that Eddowes was stabbed in the face, mind you.)
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 10-30-2018 at 07:53 AM.
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  #690  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:51 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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No we don't. But the killer was obviously 6 times less interested in her lower part than he was her stomach.
And about the same for Nichols killer.
Which is why some are connecting the two murders
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