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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1161  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:58 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Let's once and for all establish that it is a proven presence in an area that make the dwellers there of interest as potential suspects.
Let's also once and for all establish that you do not have to LIVE in an area to have a proven presence there - any person who does not live in such an area but who can be shown to be present in the area for other reasons on a daily basis is just as viable as a suspect as anybody living there.
Because it is a proven presence in the area that allows for building a case in the first place.

The next step is to narrow down the geographical premises, and say that anybody who has a proven presence or reason to have been present in the vicinity of the murder sites is a better suspect than any one who has no such proven presence or reason to be present.

And the final step is to admit that anybody who can be proven to have been present at one or more of the actual murder sites at a time that is consistent with being the killer, is the very best suspect there can be, geographically speaking.

Much effort has been spent denying these very obvious facts. To no avail, though. That particular game is up now.

Last edited by Fisherman : 12-14-2018 at 07:00 AM.
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  #1162  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:58 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Maybe he was running so fast that he misjudged the braking time? Overshot is overshot, Gareth, it is an illogical factor that - though not ruling Levy out - speaks against him as a candidate.
Think it through, and it's not illogical at all.
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  #1163  
Old 12-14-2018, 07:08 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Think it through, and it's not illogical at all.
Actually, thinking it through is what tells us that it IS illogical. Not impossible in any way, but less logical than a beeline to home from Mitre Square.

Speaking about logic, how logical is it to summon the police for a door-to-door in your neighborhood by disposing of the rag so close by? Maybe I need to think that through too? And of course, Jacob WAS mad.

Last edited by Fisherman : 12-14-2018 at 07:16 AM.
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  #1164  
Old 12-14-2018, 07:48 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Actually, thinking it through...
I've taken this to a Levy thread.
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  #1165  
Old 12-14-2018, 07:58 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
A syphilitic insane butcher who lives in the heart of the murders and is wandering at night according to his wife.

Four days ago I pointed out that there is a lot of evidence that JtR is a thief.
https://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=465745

Turns out Jacob Levy is not only a convicted thief but was still stealing from people according to his wife and documents.

The width of Duke Street -> https://wiki.casebook.org/images/d/d9/DukeStreet.jpg

JtR was only a few meters away from them. Even Begg notes Joseph Levy seems not to be telling us everything about what he witnessed.

Joseph Levy is Jacob Levy's cousin.

Means, motive and opportunity.

Between King's article and that Rip article, there is absolutely no reason to reject that here is the best JtR candidate who meets the criteria for the geographic profile and is leagues ahead of everyone else, save Kozminski.

Anyway, I come and go from here after asking what I needed to ask and reading what I need to read. So thanks for the help and references, but essentially, for myself, this is it. As long as Levy is there and no one to compete with those sort of details discovered with Levy, then there is no reason why the case for Levy shouldn't be the direction of research that points at JtR. Plausible alternatives just don't have all that circumstantial evidence again them.

As a note, Swanson seems to believe JtR died in an asylum. Yet Kozminski wasn't dead when he wrote that. Levy died in an asylum though. The similarities between Levy and Kozminski are striking. You can't fail to think with Levy that you are reading everything that you would expect Kozminski to have been. Kozminski is like Jacob Levy *Lite*.

Anyway, for anyone reading this geographic profile thread, this is basically where I am going to pause and say to some degree of confidence that the geographic profile should also be included in the case for Jacob Levy and that others have made the case for him better than I could, given all the evidence we have.

I am quite happy with this Jacob Levy find. It makes the most sense. I could easily place those writings at the end of Philip Sudgen's The Complete History of Jack the Ripper and it would all flow just fine from start to finish without looking out of place at all.

I wasn't expecting a syphilitic mad butcher to be out at night in the heart of the murders. The investigation files (what's left of them) doesn't seem to indicate such a person even existed at the time or would have been found. One would think such a person would be noticed by them. It appears he wasn't. Yet here he was all the time. Jacob Levy would have known the areas of the murders extremely well from growing up around the place and doing business.

Have fun, stay safe. For now, this is it for me. A lot of answers merged with this one person and that's better than I could ask for or expected.

Over and out.

Batman
what about Hyam hyams? another mad jew who lived in the area.weve got jacob levy, kosminski, hyam hyams? David Cohen? how many other local crazy jews should we throw into the mix?
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Last edited by Abby Normal : 12-14-2018 at 08:03 AM.
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  #1166  
Old 12-14-2018, 09:35 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Actually, thinking it through is what tells us that it IS illogical. Not impossible in any way, but less logical than a beeline to home from Mitre Square.

Speaking about logic, how logical is it to summon the police for a door-to-door in your neighborhood by disposing of the rag so close by? Maybe I need to think that through too? And of course, Jacob WAS mad.

The beeline home directly from Mitre Square is very illogical Fisherman, particularly when you consider that the odds of getting caught are multiplying with each successive murder. More police, more Vigilantee groups, pressure from the crown to get these solved. Why would a killer who evidently is intending to remain at large leave an arrow pointing in the direction he left Mitre Square. And the apron section "was not there" when Long passed at 1:20am, so, the apron was not left on the way home from Mitre. It could have been placed there an hour later.

Considering the fact that "Jewes/Juewes/Juwes" are the subject matter in the GSG, is it a coincidence that it ends op on a passageway wall leading to model homes almost exclusively occupied by Jews?
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  #1167  
Old 12-14-2018, 09:49 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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I believe you are right, Gareth. Which means the King article is wrong. It tells us Levy was nestled in the City.
Checking the relevant Goad maps, there appear to be two addresses of "36 Middlesex Street", one on each side (though this may possibly be due to renumbering as the maps are from different years).
The one Sam selected is shown as a tea warehouse on the 1890 map. On the 1887 map showing the opposite side (which incidentally is in the City as the boundary runs along the middle of the street) 36 is a shop, one shop down from the corner of Stoney Lane.
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  #1168  
Old 12-14-2018, 10:15 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Checking the relevant Goad maps, there appear to be two addresses of "36 Middlesex Street", one on each side (though this may possibly be due to renumbering as the maps are from different years).
The one Sam selected is shown as a tea warehouse on the 1890 map. On the 1887 map showing the opposite side (which incidentally is in the City as the boundary runs along the middle of the street) 36 is a shop, one shop down from the corner of Stoney Lane.
Nothing is ever simple!

The tea warehouse (Paget and Piggott) was at 36 in late 1889. Presumably the Kelly’s entry confirms that the 36 from where the Levys ran their business was in the City.
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  #1169  
Old 12-14-2018, 10:47 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
Nothing is ever simple!

The tea warehouse (Paget and Piggott) was at 36 in late 1889. Presumably the Kelly’s entry confirms that the 36 from where the Levys ran their business was in the City.
The evidence at the OB trial confirms Levy’s shop was 10/12 yards from Stoney Lane.
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  #1170  
Old 12-14-2018, 11:59 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
The beeline home directly from Mitre Square is very illogical Fisherman, particularly when you consider that the odds of getting caught are multiplying with each successive murder. More police, more Vigilantee groups, pressure from the crown to get these solved. Why would a killer who evidently is intending to remain at large leave an arrow pointing in the direction he left Mitre Square. And the apron section "was not there" when Long passed at 1:20am, so, the apron was not left on the way home from Mitre. It could have been placed there an hour later.

Considering the fact that "Jewes/Juewes/Juwes" are the subject matter in the GSG, is it a coincidence that it ends op on a passageway wall leading to model homes almost exclusively occupied by Jews?
That ”arrow” would have pointed to innumerable lodgings. And the killer may have felt that dropping it in Brighton was too risky.
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