Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection.

[Simon Wood]

If Emma Smith had identified her gang of attackers as policemen, and the blunt instrument used to rape and ultimately kill her had not been a walking stick, as suggested by coroner Wynne Baxter, but a truncheon, it would explain the reluctance of the witnesses to report the incident to the police.

[Observer]

The same formula with some modifications are used for DNA dragnets

You have a choice. Pins on a map as per police procedure and GUESS or pins on a map with added mathematics to help your guess. When you have a few tens of thousands to spend on DNA dragnetting you can bet using this formula gives you a better reason to dragnet specific areas than GUESSING to spend that money. Geoprofiles take in evidence also.

Yes it's called grasping at straws. A last resort. In how may serial murder cases has it been revealed that the killer did not live or work in the "hot zone"? What then? Geo Profiling at the end of the day boils down to nothing more than sheer luck should the process prove successful.

Of course, it does or else you have the added coincidence of needing the claim the dropped apron piece being in line with it is just a coincidence too

.

All the dropped apron piece proves is that the killer was heading back into Spitalfields, he could have lived anywhere east of Goulston Street. To say that he lived in the Flower and Dean Street area as a result of Geo Profiling is garbage.

It works with Whitechapel in 1888 because no offender is aware of geoprofiling at that time. That took 100 years later approx. The fact it is hitting on this particular hot zone is no coincidence and MJK was the 'last' major attack. We have examples of serial killers that killed close to their homes like this so your doubt can be matched against the historical evidence for it happening. Tabram's murder scene was close to the hot zone (she actually isn't directly in the red hot zone but slightly under it).

Forget whether the offender was aware of Geo Profiling at the time, he had the common sense to realise that you "don't poop in your own backyard" your words. Do you realise how close Flower and Dean Street is to Dorset Street? Provide examples where serial killers have killed near to their homes, lets see if they are comparable to the Kelly murder in terms of closeness.

Let's see what Corner Wynn Baxter has to say.

"barbarously murdered" and opined that it was "impossible to imagine a more brutal and dastardly assault,"

That's a homicide. It notes that Whitechapel was not this violent. It indicates it was a unique attack. He even lays down a challenge to JtR.

I never said Smith was not murdered. Sam Flynn is right though that it was more a case of manslaugther. Sexual murder, definitely not. A single injury, to the vagina using a blunt instrument. It smacks to me as a warning, or a drunken moment of viciousness delivered by a brute. Smith was unlucky not to survive. Nine times out of ten she would have.

T

his indicates we are looking at a rare type of murder, which is what Sexual Homicides are. Given we have a cluster attacker going on with this rare type of crime (Smith, Tabram) it has all the indicators of a Lust Murderer on the loose who must be stopped or else they will likely continue. If Smith was found today, this would be the #1 reason to catch her perp.

As Sam Flynn has pointed out acts of violence were common in that area, at that time, to blame them all on JTR is negligent.

I am sure if you read this thread you will come across what we have to say about the truthfulness of Connelly. There is no cherry picking of facts. What we have are many questions and facts that put Connelly and Smiths account in doubt.

O h Connelly's testimony, well, what can we say regarding that. Not a lot. Tabram was still murdered though. How can the contradictory nature of Connelly's statements prove or disprove whether Tabram was murdered by JTR though? More to the point, and you haven't addressed this. How does it follow that because there is confusion with regard to Tabrams murder Smith must have been lying also?

There is nothing to doubt Long. Saying Long missed it, isn't the same as pointing out that no one saw Smith or Connelly in very public places with lots of missing time, no blood was found for Smith, some investigators doubted Smith's story, including Walter Dew. Is he cherry picking too? John G outlined some matters. Very far away from the type of argument that Long missed it.

The concept is the same. There is evidence that Long missed seeing the apron at 2:20 a.m. You choose to dismiss the common sense solution as to why Long missed seeing the apron at 2:20 a.m. That is, it would take the killer 5 minutes to walk from Mitre Square to Goulston Street, and yet you would have us believe that he remained in the area for at least 40 minutes before depositing the apron. As I said you ignore common sense to cherry pick incidents to suite your theories.

All you have ended up doing is calling the hot zone a coincidence, but then accepting it means something, just nothing to do with geographic profiling and then claim serial offenders never hit close to home and then claim that arguments for doubting the Smith and Tabram stories are the same as doubting Long.

It is coincidence. Was the killer apprehended whilst living in the "hot zone"? No he was not. Your argument is pure speculation

[Batman]

If Emma Smith had identified her gang of attackers as policemen, and the blunt instrument used to rape and ultimately kill her had not been a walking stick, as suggested by coroner Wynne Baxter, but a truncheon, it would explain the reluctance of the witnesses to report the incident to the police.

That is one suggestion I made a day or so ago and another one is that a client assaulted her and she doesn't want to reveal that she's a prostitute.

[Observer]

That is one suggestion I made a day or so ago and another one is that a client assaulted her and she doesn't want to reveal that she's a prostitute.

The individuals at the lodging house knew she was a prostitute. Why would she choose to use this ruse on them when they already knew her to be a prostitute?

[Herlock Sholmes]

This is a repeat of the stuff that is back several pages ago and since then the problems with that account have been put forward. Nothing in that passage is satisfactory given some investigators at the time, who were there, doubted all of that and gave reasons why they doubted it.

If you look hard enough, and with a certain intention, you will find issues with every aspect of the case. It’s conspiracy theorist thinking. The chances of Emma Smith being killed by Jack the Ripper are marginally less than Godzilla being guilty. All the navel gazing in the world won’t alter that. There’s enough mystery in this case without creating more.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The individuals at the lodging house knew she was a prostitute. Why would she choose to use this ruse on them when they already knew her to be a prostitute?

She wouldn’t.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Batman,

I included the truncheon scenario in the revised edition of my book [2017]. I much prefer it to her desperately clinging onto her reputation.

Regards,

Simon

[Batman]

Hi Batman,

I included the truncheon scenario in the revised edition of my book [2017]. I much prefer it to her desperately clinging onto her reputation.

Regards,

Simon

Yeah I can believe that because it's something that would come up eventually with enough thought. Think he used the handle.

[Batman]

The individuals at the lodging house knew she was a prostitute. Why would she choose to use this ruse on them when they already knew her to be a prostitute?

Hospital and investigators, not lodging house.

[Batman]

If you look hard enough, and with a certain intention, you will find issues with every aspect of the case. It’s conspiracy theorist thinking. The chances of Emma Smith being killed by Jack the Ripper are marginally less than Godzilla being guilty. All the navel gazing in the world won’t alter that. There’s enough mystery in this case without creating more.

So it is just a coincidence, then?

[Observer]

Hospital and investigators, not lodging house.

Her first contact was the lodging house. She told them she had been attacked by more than one individual, as I said it was pointless trying to hide from them the fact she was a prostitute when they already knew her to be one

[Simon Wood]

Hi Batman,

No. The handle had a leather strap attached. The main shaft of the truncheon would have been perfect [if that's a word I can use in this context].

Regards,

Simon

[Observer]

Hi Batman,

No. The handle had a leather strap attached. The main shaft of the truncheon would have been perfect [if that's a word I can use in this context].

Regards,

Simon

A policeman Simon. So not a sexual murder, or the man who went on to kill Nichols, and the rest of them?

[Batman]

Yes it's called grasping at straws. A last resort. In how may serial murder cases has it been revealed that the killer did not live or work in the "hot zone"? What then? Geo Profiling at the end of the day boils down to nothing more than sheer luck should the process prove successful.

Oh a coincidence, ok. There are a lot of serial killers meeting the hot zone criteria like Albert DeSalvo and Richard Chase. Lots more. So these are all coincidences?

All the dropped apron piece proves is that the killer was heading back into Spitalfields, he could have lived anywhere east of Goulston Street. To say that he lived in the Flower and Dean Street area as a result of Geo Profiling is garbage.

Oh, another coincidence. So this is coincidence #2.

Forget whether the offender was aware of Geo Profiling at the time, he had the common sense to realise that you "don't poop in your own backyard" your words. Do you realise how close Flower and Dean Street is to Dorset Street? Provide examples where serial killers have killed near to their homes, lets see if they are comparable to the Kelly murder in terms of closeness.

Sure this is quite easy.

April 27th, 1985
Series killer Dennis Rader (BTK) murder his 53-year-old neighbor Marine Hedge just down the street, and strangled her.

I never said Smith was not murdered. Sam Flynn is right though that it was more a case of manslaugther. Sexual murder, definitely not. A single injury, to the vagina using a blunt instrument. It smacks to me as a warning, or a drunken moment of viciousness delivered by a brute. Smith was unlucky not to survive. Nine times out of ten she would have.

Does Wynn Baxter the coroner say it was manslaughter or murder? He says murder. He also says clearly this is unique and he couldn't imagine anything worse.

So where are these examples of drunken brutes stabbing vaginas in Whitechapel... or the whole of the East End... or the whole of London... or the whole of Great Britain for that matter. Just a coincidence this is happening in the heart of the hot zone very close to JtR crimes and his victims' abodes?

As Sam Flynn has pointed ouacts of violence were common in that area, at that time, to blame them all on JTR is negligent.

No, not that type of sexual violence and certainly has not been able to produce examples of this happening again. Nor can you show how these 'other' assailants were caught (another coincidence #3) and that they both didn't offend again (rarely do they not offender again, so that's coincidence #4).

O h Connelly's testimony, well, what can we say regarding that. Not a lot. Tabram was still murdered though. How can the contradictory nature of Connelly's statements prove or disprove whether Tabram was murdered by JTR though?

It shows that lying is happening and maybe organized.

More to the point, and you haven't addressed this. How does it follow that because there is confusion with regard to Tabrams murder Smith must have been lying also?

Smith's case has its own set of issues brought up first by Walter Dew who was there working on this case and later by another investigator. There are reasons why Smith's account can be doubted. They are discussed a few pages back. Smith's story can be doubted without any recourse to Tabram.

The concept is the same. There is evidence that Long missed seeing the apron at 2:20 a.m.

What's the evidence for this?

You choose to dismiss the common sense solution as to why Long missed seeing the apron at 2:20 a.m. That is, it would take the killer 5 minutes to walk from Mitre Square to Goulston Street, and yet you would have us believe that he remained in the area for at least 40 minutes before depositing the apron. As I said you ignore common sense to cherry pick incidents to suite your theories.

It is not that I totally reject that Long could have missed it, but it was a rainy night and people stood in archways waiting for the rain to pass. JtR appears to have stood in an archway himself for the apron deposit. I would expect him to be observing PC movements so it's not just a 5 min dash to Goulston St in that respect. If JtR was a PC then that could explain it also.

There is far more evidence that Connolley and Smith have problems with their stories than how long it took the apron to get to Goulston street. Long was adamant it wasn't there.

It is coincidence. Was the killer apprehended whilst living in the "hot zone"? No he was not. Your argument is pure speculation

Coincidences (plural). Which is why your counter-argument is of such low probability. You multiply coincidence probabilities, you don't add them. With each coincidence you multiple the probability of them happening to make them even more unlikely. I listed at least 4 coincidences.

Which is why people here who hold to lots of things being coincidences are unlikely to be correct.

[Batman]

If you look hard enough, and with a certain intention, you will find issues with every aspect of the case. It’s conspiracy theorist thinking. The chances of Emma Smith being killed by Jack the Ripper are marginally less than Godzilla being guilty. All the navel gazing in the world won’t alter that. There’s enough mystery in this case without creating more.

Can you give an example of sexual homicides like Emmas happening in Whitechapel, East End, London or Great Britain let alone in this small area near Flower & Dean St.?

The chances of your coincidences happening are more improbable than the same hand at work, especially given you have no other examples to show except ... JtR.