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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #2161  
Old 11-17-2017, 07:39 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
great invention, the cart
Touché, Abby - the elegance!!
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  #2162  
Old 11-17-2017, 08:22 AM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
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tobin cant be Bible John, because the majority of his victims were found in a different location than the bible john series! ; )

It seems that Bible John was probably a man called John McInnes.
Police managed to get some DNA from one of the victims, and it was a close match to the DNA given by relatives of McInnes for comparison.

McInnes's body was exhumed, but unfortunately the body was so badly decomposed that no DNA could be extracted.

Therefore although McInnes is technically in the clear, the close match of DNA from one of the victims to that of Mcinnes's relatives makes the case against him, to my mind, a very compelling one.
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  #2163  
Old 11-17-2017, 09:41 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
tobin cant be Bible John, because the majority of his victims were found in a different location than the bible john series! ; )

It seems that Bible John was probably a man called John McInnes.
Police managed to get some DNA from one of the victims, and it was a close match to the DNA given by relatives of McInnes for comparison.

McInnes's body was exhumed, but unfortunately the body was so badly decomposed that no DNA could be extracted.

Therefore although McInnes is technically in the clear, the close match of DNA from one of the victims to that of Mcinnes's relatives makes the case against him, to my mind, a very compelling one.
I have read numerous bits of information about the case, one of them being that there was only DNA in the third Bibe John case, and that this DNA was not good enough to allow for a comparison.
The information about McInnesī relatives DNA being a close match is new to me.
As such, I donīt have any beef in the case - I am only pointing to what David Wilson has said. However, a quick check turned up this:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1..._John_suspect/

...which seems to defuse the DNA taken from relatives. Itīs from 1996, I believe.

Last edited by Fisherman : 11-17-2017 at 09:44 AM.
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  #2164  
Old 11-17-2017, 11:04 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
tobin cant be Bible John, because the majority of his victims were found in a different location than the bible john series! ; )

It seems that Bible John was probably a man called John McInnes.
Police managed to get some DNA from one of the victims, and it was a close match to the DNA given by relatives of McInnes for comparison.

McInnes's body was exhumed, but unfortunately the body was so badly decomposed that no DNA could be extracted.

Therefore although McInnes is technically in the clear, the close match of DNA from one of the victims to that of Mcinnes's relatives makes the case against him, to my mind, a very compelling one.
Hi Barn
the DNA is no good. I was just kidding about tobin-hence the winky thing. He was Bible John-no doubt.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #2165  
Old 11-17-2017, 12:01 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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I have read a lot about Bible John over the years, and what strikes me now, if Tobin was the killer, is how I have formed a picture over the years of a skilled, clever, smooth, intelligent killer with the ability to outsmart the police.

But Tobin? A sad looser, a half-baked human, a low-life pile of crap with a well deserved low degree of self-esteem...?

I think there may be a lesson to learn from this.
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  #2166  
Old 11-17-2017, 12:14 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
I have read a lot about Bible John over the years, and what strikes me now, if Tobin was the killer, is how I have formed a picture over the years of a skilled, clever, smooth, intelligent killer with the ability to outsmart the police.

But Tobin? A sad looser, a half-baked human, a low-life pile of crap with a well deserved low degree of self-esteem...?

I think there may be a lesson to learn from this.
I don't know much about Bible John, but I happened to see a youtube video on the Happy Face Killer, Keith Jesperson, last night. The thing that struck me in a phone interview with him, was when asked why he strangled all the victims (8) first, he said well, it worked with the first one so I kept doing it with the rest. He relished in the fact he was getting away with it. It motivated him to continue. In his first murder he was rather surprised because a lady said her boyfriend, who was not the killer, did it. This motivated him to write a letter taking responsibility because he couldn't stand someone else taking credit. All his letters included a smiley face and thus his sobriquet.

Wonder if any of these same thoughts may apply to the Whitechapel Murderer?
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  #2167  
Old 11-17-2017, 12:27 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
I don't know much about Bible John, but I happened to see a youtube video on the Happy Face Killer, Keith Jesperson, last night. The thing that struck me in a phone interview with him, was when asked why he strangled all the victims (8) first, he said well, it worked with the first one so I kept doing it with the rest. He relished in the fact he was getting away with it. It motivated him to continue. In his first murder he was rather surprised because a lady said her boyfriend, who was not the killer, did it. This motivated him to write a letter taking responsibility because he couldn't stand someone else taking credit. All his letters included a smiley face and thus his sobriquet.

Wonder if any of these same thoughts may apply to the Whitechapel Murderer?
jerry it seems like alot of SKs say this, i think rifkin said it was a like a superstition
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  #2168  
Old 11-17-2017, 12:42 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
I don't know much about Bible John, but I happened to see a youtube video on the Happy Face Killer, Keith Jesperson, last night. The thing that struck me in a phone interview with him, was when asked why he strangled all the victims (8) first, he said well, it worked with the first one so I kept doing it with the rest. He relished in the fact he was getting away with it. It motivated him to continue. In his first murder he was rather surprised because a lady said her boyfriend, who was not the killer, did it. This motivated him to write a letter taking responsibility because he couldn't stand someone else taking credit. All his letters included a smiley face and thus his sobriquet.

Wonder if any of these same thoughts may apply to the Whitechapel Murderer?
So, the 5:th of October letter, is that what you are thinking of? Or?

The trademark I perceive is something I donīt think the killer tried to impress upon the public. I think it was ritualistic, and rituals are normally private things.
It is to a significant extent pure luck that allows us to see it. And I think there was very likely once a lot more to see than what was left.


PS. Jesperson was a family man, like Lechmere. And a transporter of goods, like Lechmere.
Just saying.

Last edited by Fisherman : 11-17-2017 at 12:44 PM.
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  #2169  
Old 11-17-2017, 12:58 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
I have read a lot about Bible John over the years, and what strikes me now, if Tobin was the killer, is how I have formed a picture over the years of a skilled, clever, smooth, intelligent killer with the ability to outsmart the police.

But Tobin? A sad looser, a half-baked human, a low-life pile of crap with a well deserved low degree of self-esteem...?

I think there may be a lesson to learn from this.
you cant judge a book by its cover..or maybe the cover by the book? LOL!

SKs span the range of low life thug losers who actually look like it-like Lucas, all the way to suave smart good looking guys like bundy.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline

Last edited by Abby Normal : 11-17-2017 at 01:00 PM.
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  #2170  
Old 11-17-2017, 01:19 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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The Star was the only paper to cover the incident in-depth, and even it reported that "the man's statement is not wholly accepted."

As I said upthread it's interesting that Schwartz went to the Star. He says the man chased him to the railway arches where the torso would be found a year later. He lived on block from the dumpsite. He goes to the star and in this story the man now has a knife. Someone shouts Lipski to him and the murder is in the yard of a jewish club. Within a short time there's graffiti abot juwes at the next murder. I think you said once jerry you thought that Mellor would have been involved in taking Schwartz story? And when Mellor says he thinks Clearly is the ex-compositor who worked for the The Globe with no roof to his mouth, John Arnold was not a compositor? But did he have a cleft palate?
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