Did JtR Wander Around For Hours Looking For Likely Victim

[lynn cates]

multiple views

Hello DVV.

"The fact that there was no murder in October, and the indoors final chapter, tell me about Jack-the-cautious"

And that's one perfectly rational explanation. But there are others. Notice that this view already leaps to the conclusion that there is one perpetrator and 5 victims.

The best.
LC

[DVV]

Lynn,

I'm with you from 3 to 6, but all these questions have been cleared up, which is not the case of 1 and 2.

One can believe that Jack killed 5 times, or 4, or 6 or 7, the question is still open, and none of our choices would be romantic, or more or less romantic than any else.
The same is true re the motive. Still a valid question.

Amitiés,
David

[lynn cates]

hope springs eternal

Hello DVV. Quite right. 1 and 2 are still open to question and I would be glad to see them resolved in the traditional manner.

I still hold out hope that the Rev. Andy will dig out a signed confession by Druitt vis-a-vis the 5 canonicals. (And I mean that sincerely.)

The best.
LC

[curious]

Hello Curious.

Of course, this already presupposes the traditional ripper with all the trappings.
"Poor Annie, sick and tired, apparently wandered for hours."

True, IF she was killed at 5:30. Some think she died an hour or more before that time.

"Or did he awaken in the middle of the night with a killing fever and go trolling?"

This view of Jack is simply delicious! I would be delighted if it were true. Imagine, a man with a Jekyll/Hyde problem trying desperately to stop his career but he is compelled by forces beyond his control.

"I'm guessing since the murders occurred on the weekends, there was a lot going on? what kinds of things?"

Notice that, the traditionalists have gerrymandered "weekend" to include Thursdays through Mondays, as well as bank holidays. With such a broad definition, I would be astonished if the killings took place any other time. What else is left?

The best.
LC

Hi, Lynn,

At this moment, I'm exploring the traditional view -- a least partially, because I've just seen Eddowes matching with Nichols and Chapman in a significant way -- broke and no place to go.

I do believe Annie to have died considerably before 5:30, but she was still out for several hours with her whereabouts unknown.

You say: "This view of Jack is simply delicious! I would be delighted if it were true. Imagine, a man with a Jekyll/Hyde problem trying desperately to stop his career but he is compelled by forces beyond his control."

Just looking at possibilities -- not .probabilities.

So, it wasn't just weekends, or when certain ships were in town? good.

So, what gentlemenly activities -- other than pub crawling -- were taking place?

I suspect I'm never gonna be very traditional.

curious

[curious]

Curious,

about a drunk Jack, just keep in mind that many serial killers work under the effect of alcohol and drugs.

Amitiés,
David

Agreed, David.

But how much? drinking to work up his courage (I know some men who won't dance until they've had a couple)

But drinking for hours?

I don't personally have enough knowledge to know.

curious

[lynn cates]

varia

Hello Curious.

"At this moment, I'm exploring the traditional view[.]"

And rightly so. I think it good to spend considerable time there--at least initially.

"I do believe Annie to have died considerably before 5:30, but she was still out for several hours with her whereabouts unknown."

Well, if she died around 4:00, and given she left between 1:30 and 2:00, that would make just over 2 hours.

"Just looking at possibilities -- not .probabilities."

Good! ALL must be looked at. (Oh dear, now I've ended a sentence with a preposition. Sorry.)

"So, it wasn't just weekends, or when certain ships were in town?"

Well, there were always ships nearby. You might have a go at Trevor Marriott's book in this regard. He has certainly worked hard on his research into ships.

"So, what gentlemenly activities -- other than pub crawling -- were taking place?"

Ahem. Well, ask Polly, Annie or Kate. (snicker!)

The best.
LC

[DVV]

Hi Curious,
the drinking question...


Half pastif, half water. Two ice cubes.
Twenty times.
Don't forget salt peanuts and Dizzy Gillespie.

Amitiés,
David

[curious]

Hello Curious and DVV.

"I don't understand what's romantic?"

This refers to the product of Sir MM's dictum and many years of ripperology.

It includes:

1. A single Jack with 5 canonical victims.

2. Blood lust, or, in some versions, revenge.

3. Fog.

4. A top hat and cape.

5. A Gladstone bag filled with surgical instruments.

6. Big Ben striking in the background along with appropriate music from a double bassoon and/or bass viol.

Ah! This really takes me back!

The best.
LC

Lynn,

1) I started believing number 1, then quickly began seeing other things.

Now, for the first time, matching Eddowes with Nichols and Chapman, I'm looking there again, but it doesn't mean I'll stop my thinking there.

2) Blood lust or revenge -- well, that would be the motive most likely, whatever the revenge is for. I think pure blood lust would have gotten our boy caught. Revenge? now that's a trickier matter.

3) Fog -- well, it was after all in August that the canonical killings began. In my part of the world, it's said that if you count the fogs in August, you'll know how many snows to expect in the winter (completely wrong, by the way).

4) at the moment, I have no idea what Jack was wearing, what kind of man he was or anything else concrete about Jack -- he's wispier than the fog itself

5) Or perhaps a machete wrapped in newspaper

6) Very nice -- but I'm hearing more the lonesomeness of a train whistle

curious

[lynn cates]

revenge

Hello Curious. Yes, those are reasonable motives. In fact, for many years, it was just a "given" that Jack had contracted VD from a prostitute and so was exacting his revenge upon that whole class.

I say, I wish someone would start a thread on revenge. It hasn't been discussed in a long while. Perhaps someone has some new insights?

The best.
LC

[curious]

Hello Curious.

"At this moment, I'm exploring the traditional view[.]"

And rightly so. I think it good to spend considerable time there--at least initially.

"I do believe Annie to have died considerably before 5:30, but she was still out for several hours with her whereabouts unknown."

Well, if she died around 4:00, and given she left between 1:30 and 2:00, that would make just over 2 hours.

"Just looking at possibilities -- not .probabilities."

Good! ALL must be looked at. (Oh dear, now I've ended a sentence with a preposition. Sorry.)

"So, it wasn't just weekends, or when certain ships were in town?"

Well, there were always ships nearby. You might have a go at Trevor Marriott's book in this regard. He has certainly worked hard on his research into ships.

"So, what gentlemenly activities -- other than pub crawling -- were taking place?"

Ahem. Well, ask Polly, Annie or Kate. (snicker!)

The best.
LC

now, now, Lynn!

We already know that one meeting was breaking up about the time Stride and Eddowes were killed.

On the other nights, were similar activities just ending?

At my age -- considerably older than Annie -- if I wandered around for two hours, it would feel like several.

curious

[lynn cates]

oldier than thou

Hello Curious. Well, at my age, I would be grateful just to be ABLE to wander about. (snicker!)

The best.
LC

[curious]

Hello Curious. Yes, those are reasonable motives. In fact, for many years, it was just a "given" that Jack had contracted VD from a prostitute and so was exacting his revenge upon that whole class.

I say, I wish someone would start a thread on revenge. It hasn't been discussed in a long while. Perhaps someone has some new insights?

The best.
LC

somewhere my son ran across information that the cuts on Eddowes face were similar to the facial deformities of a baby born to someone with syphilis and thus a reason for Jack's revenge.

With the discrepancy in the ages of the victims and the ages of the men last seen with the victims, I was thinking it was likely about Jack's mother in some way.

Revenge sounds like a good thread, Lynn. Why don't you start it?

curious

[lynn cates]

deferring

Hello Curious.

"Revenge sounds like a good thread, Lynn. Why don't you start it?"

After you, I'm sure.

The best.
LC

[DVV]

Here we are ?
Some motives, syphilis aside.

Tabram: killed by Ann Morris, for what she did to her.

Nichols: killed by Sarah Cowdry.

Chapman: easy! Eliza Cooper.

Stride: Adolf Kidney, for he didn't want her to solicit around a Jewish club.

Eddowes: obviously PC Hutt, because she didn't shut the door properly.

Mary Kelly: Astrakhan man, for Mary was a very concerned RSPCA militant.

Amitiés,
David

[Sox]

Something important to consider when talking about Kate Eddowes:

In his statement to Police John Kelly states that he was waiting for her to return to the lodging house. One of the implications of this statement is that Eddowes was not soliciting for doss money on the night she died.

Further we have the statement from PC Hutt claiming Eddowes said "I shall get a damned fine hiding when I get home".

Consider too, that both the pawn shop, and the place where she was detained earlier in the day, were not a million miles away from where she was killed. Take into consideration too, that alone of all the victims, Eddowes was in something of a 'stable' relationship, she had been with John Kelly for seven years.

We assume that when she is seen talking to a man that she is soliciting, but given that she was reported to have said "I have come back to earn the reward offered for the apprehension of the Whitechapel murderer. I think I know him." AND that she had just been released form a Police staion....then there is a chance, however slim, that Eddowes was talking to someone who knew her.

Circumstantial evidence at the murder scene of Nichols, Chapman, Stride and Eddowes could point to these women being relaxed in the company of the man who killed them. That could have been someone who they were acquainted with (please note could) and if that is so, then Jack was not spending hours hunting for victims, they were pre-selected.