Martin Fido discovery 2018

[Joshua Rogan]

I'm not sure any of the details were necessarily anachronistic, Gary. The sugar refinery was still there a good few years after it shut down (both the Goad 1890 and OS 1893-5 maps show it still standing, although labelled by Goad as John Schwartz Sugar Refinery (silent). Only the lower section of Albert Street had been renamed Deal St at this time, between Hanbury and Pelham St, which ran parallel. The refinery may originally have covered the whole block, but (by 1890) only covered the top half on the corner of Pelham and Deal St so the initial sighting by Eyewitness seems to have been here. But he then says the man ran about 400 yards before being caught by the policeman. This was almost far enough to reach the Church St (now Fournier St) near Spitalfields market.

[MrBarnett]

Joshua,

I'm away from my files at the moment. I'll get back to you about the refinery later.

The street that Eyewitness turned into was Deal Street. Had been for 15 years or more. That's what the sign on the street corner would have said in 1888.

Pizer was last seen outside the Lee Hoy pub in Hanbury Street, he was nowhere near Fournier Street.

Gary

Edit:

The Schwartz refinery had closed by Aug, 1887, and is shown as a tenement on the 1888 electoral register, compiled later that year. So all Eyewitness's geographical references are anachronistic.

[Simon Wood]

Hi MrBarnett,

In 1879 Church Street in Mile End New Town was renamed and renumbered to become part of Hanbury Street. A sugar refinery stood at No. 157, on the corner of Deal Street, which ran north into Albert Street. It was owned by Thomas Dakin, and is in the 1888 Post Office Street Directory. There was also John Schwartz’s Sugar Refinery on Pelham Street, at the intersection of Deal and Albert streets. By mid-1887 it had ceased operations, and its corner buildings afterwards rented to a wine importer.

‘Eye-Witness’ had muddled up his streets. He was about to turn from Hanbury Street into Deal Street—not Albert Street—by “Cohen’s" sugar refinery, after “coming from school.” There was a largely Jewish board school just to the east, between Nos. 181 and 187 Hanbury Street.

Regards,

Simon

[Robert]

http://www.mawer.clara.net/sugardd.html

[MrBarnett]

Hi MrBarnett,

In 1879 Church Street in Mile End New Town was renamed and renumbered to become part of Hanbury Street. A sugar refinery stood at No. 157, on the corner of Deal Street, which ran north into Albert Street. It was owned by Thomas Dakin, and is in the 1888 Post Office Street Directory. There was also John Schwartz’s Sugar Refinery on Pelham Street, at the intersection of Deal and Albert streets. By mid-1887 it had ceased operations, and its corner buildings afterwards rented to a wine importer.

‘Eye-Witness’ had muddled up his streets. He was about to turn from Hanbury Street into Deal Street—not Albert Street—by “Cohen’s" sugar refinery, after “coming from school.” There was a largely Jewish board school just to the east, between Nos. 181 and 187 Hanbury Street.

Regards,

Simon

Simon,

It was a board school with mainly Jewish pupils. It was opposite the church run by William Tyler, and in fact a Sunday school was run from the board school when it was not open - on a Sunday.

You weren't thinking it was a 'Jewish' school that was open for lessons on a Sunday, were you?

Gary

[MrBarnett]

http://www.mawer.clara.net/sugardd.html

That's the ticket, Robert. I had a lengthy email exchange with the man who runs that site. He is a descendant of Thomas Dakin.

[jmenges]

Just my opinion, but the language "a low, villainous looking man" who "met the accusations with a sneer" reeks of a Gentile writer describing a Jew. Which eliminates to me at least the possibility that the school he was coming from was Jewish.

JM

[MrBarnett]

I have to hold my hand up to not checking my records before posting here. It was Pizer himself who referred to the lower part of Hanbury Street as Church Street. It was established that the last sighting of him was near the Leigh Hoy pub which was situated at 163, Hanbury Street (formerly 26, Church Street). So that was his anachronism.

The 157, Hanbury Street premises was recorded as s 'sugar house' on the 1885 electoral register, but it was shown as a tenement in 1887 and 1888.

By 1888, only someone with long familiarity with the area would have tempered Deal Street being called Albert Street.

[MrBarnett]

Just my opinion, but the language "a low, villainous looking man" who "met the accusations with a sneer" reeks of a Gentile writer describing a Jew. Which eliminates to me at least the possibility that the school he was coming from was Jewish.

JM

Yes, Jon, I wondered about the seemingly anti-Semitic tone of the letter. The candidate I'm considering (I'm by no means wedded to the idea) was a do-gooder of the highest calibre, a very well respected local figure. Whether he had an anti-Semitic side, I don't know.

[jmenges]

And if Eyewitness was Jewish, then there were so many "hidden" synagogues and private houses in the East End where Jewish worshipers congregated and studied that it would be impossible to pinpoint exactly where Eyewitness was coming from. It could have been a Chevra Talmud study group in a private residence, for example.

JM

[MrBarnett]

And if Eyewitness was Jewish, then there were so many "hidden" synagogues and private houses in the East End where Jewish worshipers congregated and studied that it would be impossible to pinpoint exactly where Eyewitness was coming from. It could have been a Chevra Talmud study group in a private residence, for example.

JM

Indeed, there were, Jon, but I'd say the anti-Semitic tone argues against a Jewish author. So we are most likely looking for a gentile school operating on a Sunday, and that's almost certainly a Christian 'Sunday School' of some kind.

[Simon Wood]

I wasn't thinking anything, other than it was largely a Jewish board school. Which school he was coming from is incidental and unknowable.

Of more importance is that there were three accounts of the incident, and they're all different.

[MrBarnett]

There's some interesting stuff here about the Trinity Congregational Church and schools (including Sunday schools) in Hanbury Street.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vol27/pp265-288#h3-0018

Wiilliam Tyler was the main man and he lived a 15/20 minute walk away from the church. His route home may well have taken him past where the Church Street incident happened on the day and at time it happened (he lived in Shoreditch).

I'm not saying that he was EW, just that it's far likelier that it was him or someone similar than an agent of a shadowy group involved in the commission and cover up of the WM or the police trying to spread fake news.

[MrBarnett]

I wasn't thinking anything, other than it was largely a Jewish board school. Which school he was coming from is incidental and unknowable.

Of more importance is that there were three accounts of the incident, and they're all different.

I'm not sure, then, why the school or the ethnicity of the majority of its pupils is at all relevant. The Board School wouldn't have been open on a Sunday, would it?

The three versions are?

Pizer's, his brother's, EW's letter?

[Simon Wood]

Yes, siree. That's them.