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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Catherine Eddowes

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  #111  
Old 12-29-2017, 04:35 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Michael,

There were several coffee houses in the area but none in Mitre Square to my recollection. Sams Coffee House was at #9 King Street next door to the buildings I mentioned Frankilin King and his father had a lease on. This would actually be St James Square but someone could have confused it for Mitre Square, I guess. I believe at one time #6 and #7 Mitre Street were used as coffee houses as well. Not sure exactly when though.
Thanks jerry, I'm sure you've seen why this line of questioning in my other responses.
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  #112  
Old 12-29-2017, 04:35 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by DJA View Post
The lane way of the Bull Inn used to extend into Mitre Square.

Reckon your press account refers to a pub outside of the actual Mitre Square as we understand it these days.
Thanks DJA.
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  #113  
Old 12-29-2017, 09:42 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Thanks jerry, I'm sure you've seen why this line of questioning in my other responses.
Hi Michael,

Yes, I see what you are getting at. The Rose and Crown Coffee Shop just outside of St James place on Houndsditch would seem to make more sense at this point. It was known to be used a few months later by Abberline to hold a witness in the Cleveland Street Scandal. Kate would have passed right by it on her route to Mitre Square. That would also put James Blenkinsop's testimony into the spotlight more due to the direction the man asking about the couple was coming from. Blenkingsop admitted he had "seen some people pass".

Last edited by jerryd : 12-29-2017 at 09:50 AM.
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  #114  
Old 12-29-2017, 12:37 PM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Hi Michael,

Yes, I see what you are getting at. The Rose and Crown Coffee Shop just outside of St James place on Houndsditch would seem to make more sense at this point. It was known to be used a few months later by Abberline to hold a witness in the Cleveland Street Scandal. Kate would have passed right by it on her route to Mitre Square. That would also put James Blenkinsop's testimony into the spotlight more due to the direction the man asking about the couple was coming from. Blenkingsop admitted he had "seen some people pass".
Thanks jerry. I think its likely that Sailor Man/Kate was a mistake sighting, and even Lawende himself didn't think he could recognize the man a week later. If thats the case, then from Kates release and arrival near the square until almost 1:45 allows for plenty of time for the murder and the mutilations. And perhaps, a changed venue for the corpse. If she did have a meeting that night it might makes sense that it would be indoors somewhere. The contemporary police even speculated aloud about her being dropped there.
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  #115  
Old 12-30-2017, 06:59 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Originally Posted by DJA View Post
The lane way of the Bull Inn used to extend into Mitre Square.

Reckon your press account refers to a pub outside of the actual Mitre Square as we understand it these days.
Wasn't the Bull Inn on Aldgate High street, near Aldgate Station? Bull Inn Yard certainly extends along the railway tracks there. Or was there another pub of the same name?
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  #116  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:14 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Yes, I see what you are getting at. The Rose and Crown Coffee Shop just outside of St James place on Houndsditch would seem to make more sense at this point. It was known to be used a few months later by Abberline to hold a witness in the Cleveland Street Scandal. Kate would have passed right by it on her route to Mitre Square. That would also put James Blenkinsop's testimony into the spotlight more due to the direction the man asking about the couple was coming from. Blenkingsop admitted he had "seen some people pass".
Hi Jerry,
This may be a silly question, but are you sure that is the correct Rose and Crown? I only ask as it's shown as a public house on the Goad map, i.e. Licensed to sell alcohol, rather than Rest([aurant] as is the (disused in 88) coffee shop at 7 Mitre St.
Also, it seems strange to me that the Met police would ensconce a witness in City police territory.
I know very little detail about the Cleveland St business though, so I'd be happy to learn more.
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  #117  
Old 12-30-2017, 06:10 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Wasn't the Bull Inn on Aldgate High street, near Aldgate Station? Bull Inn Yard certainly extends along the railway tracks there. Or was there another pub of the same name?
It was an old coaching inn which was mentioned in The Pickwick Papers.
Reopened briefly around the time of Jack's reign of terror.
It was on the other side of Mitre Street to the station.
Popular hotel name.
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  #118  
Old 12-30-2017, 06:17 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Hi Jerry,
This may be a silly question, but are you sure that is the correct Rose and Crown? I only ask as it's shown as a public house on the Goad map, i.e. Licensed to sell alcohol, rather than Rest([aurant] as is the (disused in 88) coffee shop at 7 Mitre St.
Also, it seems strange to me that the Met police would ensconce a witness in City police territory.
I know very little detail about the Cleveland St business though, so I'd be happy to learn more.
Hi Joshua,

Here is the extract from the testimony of Algernon Allies during the trial:

Mr Avory- From the time of your coming up to London to give evidence did you live in lodgings under the observation of the police? Witness- Yes.

Mr. Vaughn- Where? Witness- the Rose Coffee House, Hounsditch.
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  #119  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:13 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Walter Izant,a licensed victualler,might have been running the Rose Coffee House,38 Houndsditch in 1891 apparently.

Someone might want to check that.
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Last edited by DJA : 12-30-2017 at 07:14 PM. Reason: been
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  #120  
Old 12-31-2017, 06:54 AM
Observer Observer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJA View Post
It was an old coaching inn which was mentioned in The Pickwick Papers.
Reopened briefly around the time of Jack's reign of terror.
It was on the other side of Mitre Street to the station.
Popular hotel name.
The Bull Hotel, a coaching Inn mentioned in Pickwick Papers is located in Rochester Kent. How it could have reopened in Mitre Street briefly during the Ripper's reign of terror is beyond me. Also which station are you reoffering to? Aldgate Station was nowhere near Mitre Street.
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