The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Sam Flynn]

2. Why would a person write graffito about jurors?

Indeed, and who would refer to "The Jurors", as if they were some separate ethnic group, anyway?

[Abby Normal]

Last night whilst I was trying to find the source for Supt Arnold stating that the GSG and rag were unconnected (I couldn`t), I`m sure I read that the police thought the person calling out Lipski would also have been Jewish.

Abberline cleared it up when he said that since lipski was a slur against Jews at the time and that Schwartz had a heavy Jewish appearance that lipski was a slur shouted at Schwartz.

[Abby Normal]

This post by Alan Sharp from the CB archives summarizes my thoughts:

The point is that the apron was found, and as such it had to be found somewhere. And wherever that somewhere was, people would read some significance into it, regardless of how the apron got there.

The message on the wall was not unique. There were many messages on many walls. There is nothing in the message which specifically relates to the Ripper murders. Therefore the only connection between the message and the apron is their proximity. If the apron had been in the proximity of something else, anything else, people would try to read meaning into whatever that something was.

That isn't to say that the Ripper did not write the message. Just that you cannot conclude that he did solely from the fact that the two items were close together. You have to come up with something which links the two together.

David Radka for instance states that the message is the key to the whole thing. Although he doesn't give away his thought processes, that plainly means that he has seen a specific meaning in the message, and that specific meaning is his corroborating evidence which links the message to the crimes.

If you can find similar corroborating evidence, then you can argue for linking the two things. If not, then you have to accept that it is more than just a 1% possibility (in fact by the law of averages it would be a 50-50 possibility) that the two things just happened to be near each other.

The corroborating evidence is the fact that the ripper was disturbed by Jews that night. That’s the link.

[Jon Guy]

Abberline cleared it up when he said that since lipski was a slur against Jews at the time and that Schwartz had a heavy Jewish appearance that lipski was a slur shouted at Schwartz.

Yes, and the person shouting it would be Jewish too. I`ll check tonight.

[Sam Flynn]

Yes, and the person shouting it would be Jewish too. I`ll check tonight.

Abberline's memo said that "Lipski" had become a common insult hurled at Jews, but doesn't specify that it was used by Jews (or gentiles for that matter). The memo seems to have been designed to correct a belief prevailing at the Home Office that the murderer had called out to an accomplice called Lipski, and that both men were therefore Jewish. Basically, Abberline was politely saying "Hang on a minute! Just because someone cried out Lipski doesn't mean that the man being shouted at was named Lipski".

[Jon Guy]

Abberline's memo said that "Lipski" had become a common insult hurled at Jews, but doesn't specify that it was used by Jews (or gentiles for that matter). The memo seems to have been designed to correct a belief prevailing at the Home Office that the murderer had called out to an accomplice called Lipski, and that both men were therefore Jewish. Basically, Abberline was politely saying "Hang on a minute! Just because someone cried out Lipski doesn't mean that the man being shouted at was named Lipski".

Thanks for that, Gareth.
That`s what I had always thought, but I did read something in the Ultimate Source last night.
Was it that a goy would not be shouting ant-semitic stuff in front of a Jewish Socialist Club, and that there are varying degrees of Jewishness, and Schwartz was VERY Jewish, whereas the lads in the club weren`t.

[Harry D]

The corroborating evidence is the fact that the ripper was disturbed by Jews that night. That’s the link.

That's unproven though, Abby.

[Trevor Marriott]

Indeed, and who would refer to "The Jurors", as if they were some separate ethnic group, anyway?

Well the writer of the graffiti was clearly aiming the text at the male gender. "The Juwes are the men"

If the graffiti was aimed at the jews as an ethnic group surely it might have read

THE JUWES ARE “THOSE”
THE JUWES ARE “THEM”
THE JUWES ARE “THEY”
THE JUWES ARE “THE ONES”
THE JUWES ARE “THE PEOPLE

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Harry D]

Well the writer of the graffiti was clearly aiming the text at the male gender. "The Juwes are the men"

If the graffiti was aimed at the jews as an ethnic group surely it might have read

THE JUWES ARE “THOSE”
THE JUWES ARE “THEM”
THE JUWES ARE “THEY”
THE JUWES ARE “THE ONES”
THE JUWES ARE “THE PEOPLE

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

You're being too literal, Trev.

Women were second-class citizens back then, therefore the actions of any race are representative of its male contingent.

[Abby Normal]

That's unproven though, Abby.

but highly likely

[Abby Normal]

Yes, and the person shouting it would be Jewish too. I`ll check tonight.

nah- I doubt a jew would call another jew a jewish slur, nor write an incriminating graffiti against jews.

[Herlock Sholmes]

‘No CCTV I’m afraid. If you are trying to make a mystery out of somebody wandering around Whitechapel for 3.5 hours and having no one mention seeing her then you’re barking up the wrong tree. These people had more on their minds that a spot of idle people watching. It means zilch. Besides, did they question every single person around at the time? Nope. If they had done then someone would have seen her. You are simply trying to find something that fits your conspiracy theory.


just showing you how ridiculous your above post was . you just keep chasing that Gladstone bag man .

as is your post about the medical experts time of death . which is even more ludicrous

Sorry Fishy but I can’t see how posting a smiley is good evidence. Of course by your own pathetic conspiracy theorist standards a smiley might constitute good evidence but not in the real world. There is nothing, absolutely nothing suspicious about no one mentioning seeing Annie. How many could they have had time to ask? Was she such a legend that everyone knew her? Grow up.

The post about the medical experts time of death is ludicrous! You really are a dishonest poster aren’t you? You would rather believe nonsense that the words of modern medical experts who know massively more than there Victorian counterparts. Unbelievable.

Im not back home for around a week so I have no access to books. Can someone please post some information from modern medical experts about the inaccuracy of LVP TOD estimates to enlighten Fishy. He’s a conspiracy theorist who thinks that everything that goes against his theory is made up.

Wickerman, Sam, anyone....cheers in advance

[Herlock Sholmes]

It's possible, Herlock. I know that similar theories have been mooted about some of the Ripper letters, notably that the author was affecting a certain accent. It could be that the killer was trying to throw off the police by writing in a chosen style.

But what is the GSG trying to say? What relevance does it hold to the murders? As far as we know, the killer never communicated before. The GSG was a one-off. It was the killer's chance to communicate to the world, and what does he have to say for himself? Some vague message about "the juwes". In a lot of serial killer communications the content will be about the murders, the victims, or the killer himself (see Son of Sam, Zodiac etc.) If the gsg author was the killer, he had no such inclination.

I guess it's possible he just had a beef with the Jews that night, after his encounters with Schwartz/Lawende, and wanted to get it out his system, but what's the point leaving the apron there? What does legitimising that particular message achieve?

I certainly can’t come up with a reason Harry except maybe he saw foreigners (Jews) as the cause of the degradation in the area?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I do believe you stole that from Pierre.

Now that would be the definition of desperate.

[Robert St Devil]

Bingo devil
add to that that the building was relatively new and comprised of Jewish residents. If it had been there for some time surely one of the residents would have wiped it off.

that graffiti never saw the light of day and was undoubtedly written by the ripper.

Speaking of light of day, I wonder if that daytime constable from the prior shift was ever questioned. As in, "prior to ending your rounds and the next constable taking over, do you recall ever seeing this bit of grafitto written on the wall while you were making your rounds? We want to make sure that it has absolutely no connection with the Ripper murder on Mitre Square"

Considering the location within this commonly Jewish market, would an earlier constable have taken the responsibility to erase the message had it been written days prior?

More and more, I'm under the impression that it was written the night of the double murder, adding to the coincidence factor.

********

City Police considered it evidence. The Met couldn't convince themselves that it was not evidence, so they erased it; thereby revealing, the Met considered that a link between the grafitto and apron did exist. If (for instance) that whole archway had been filled with random grafitto (say, "the Russians are not never jerks" or "the Irish don't not never know nothing"), there would be no peculiarity about GSG; and then, yes, I could dismiss the coincidence. But, from the sounds of it, the GSG grafitto was the only bit of wall-writing under that arch; and the isolation of this scribble was a subliminal reason why it was considered a message from the Ripper.