Is Mary Jane's real name Mary Jane?

[DJA]

Yes it seems it was a common name.
There one is in the District infirmary for Whitechapel union in the 1881 census...
She was said to be a prostitute born 1858 in Whitechapel..

Pat..

She was baptized at St. Leonard's , Shoreditch and would have been 29 in November 1888.

Mary Ann,MA or Emma,translates into Marie J'Annette if you have a creative tendency.

Top of my list.
Actually she is my list.

[Rosella]

Surely though, if the Mary Jane (Anne) that we're looking for had lived in Whitechapel/Spitalfields all her life more people would have seen her around, knew who she was, etc. than turned out to be the case? Her earlier history would have been known and traceable wouldn't it?

[DJA]

Yep.

Better part of Shoreditch rather than the Old Nichol.

She might have changed her religion and history for a reason.

Parents could have been furniture dealers/interior decorators who moved towards Tottenham.

Mary drifted toward London and back to Spitalfields.

A brother may have been an accountant in Swansea during the copper boom.

[Sam Flynn]

Surely though, if the Mary Jane (Anne) that we're looking for had lived in Whitechapel/Spitalfields all her life more people would have seen her around, knew who she was, etc. than turned out to be the case? Her earlier history would have been known and traceable wouldn't it?

I agree, Rosella. The poor yield of acquaintances who came forward, to say nothing of a "no-show" from her family, lends strong support to MJK's story that she was a comparative newcomer. If not to London, then at least to the East End.

Even those witnesses who did come forward to identify her seem to revolve around an axis centred on a tight patch off the Ratcliff Highway. Indeed, we can only trace her history back as far as Pennington Street and Breezer's Hill with any confidence... before then, she may as well not have existed.

[MayBea]

She could have been called [Jane] after an aunt or grandmother perhaps, and people would also sometimes be named after a godparent.

Or maybe even after her father if he was John...My point exactly.

I'm all for Mary Kelly and the search for her so I don't mind any input of ideas and even personalities that attract interest.

However I find her picking the alias Mary Jane and then Marie Jeanette as still unlikely unless, for example, she was already friends with someone who used Mary Ann so she picked Mary Jane. Eddowes used Mary Ann but Mary was Mary Jane well before she could or would have known her.

[Rosella]

I've become convinced more and more over the years when thinking over this question that Mary Jane was our Mary's probable birth Christian name but the question mark is over the Kelly and Davis/Davies.

As common as explosions in Welsh colleries sadly were in the 19th century, you would think that with all the research that has been done on Mary's life a candidate of the right age named Davis would have appeared by now. If she adopted the alias Kelly when she came to London it's that that's making her earlier existence virtually untraceable, IMHO.

[miss marple]

There it goes again. Mary Kelly prostitute, 1881, check out , is Mary Kelly a local girl ? PAGE 7 of the Kelly threads. I did her genealogy.

Miss Marple

[MrBarnett]

Hi Miss Marple,

They certainly moved about a bit:

Spitalfields/Whitechapel/Poplar/Clerkenwell/Whitechapel.

The children in 1861 are not there in 1881. There's nothing at all in 1871. The only Peter Kelly I can find being born in London between Mar 1854 and Dec 1856 was in Islington (near Clerkenwell).

The only consistency between 1861 and 1881 is the mother's name and approximate age. You imply that her POB is consistent because 'spits' is in Middlesex. But so was Clerkenwell.

Unless there's more you haven't disclosed I don't see how you can be confident that the family in 1861 are the same as the one in 1881, let alone that the Mary Kelly in the Infirmary is any way connected to them.

Do you have birth, marriage, death certificates, perhaps, that fill in the gaps?

Gary.

[DJA]

There it goes again. Mary Kelly prostitute, 1881, check out , is Mary Kelly a local girl ? PAGE 7 of the Kelly threads. I did her genealogy.

Miss Marple

There is another baptized as C of E.

[MrBarnett]

Hi DJA,

What were her parents' names?

Gary

[DJA]

PC died last year.

Hope to have the HDD rebuilt for long enough to retrieve Jack the Ripper files.
Living in the Bush.

She was baptized at St. Leonard's C of E, Shoreditch.

Next door to the mortuary.

Parents' names were fairly predictable.

Working hypothesis is that she was abused as a child by someone connected with that church.
Hence the downward spiral,change of religion,etc.
She did seem to be well educated.

[miss marple]

I am at this moment checking out a number of certificates connected with whitechaple marys. Its a process of elimination. I thought the 1861 census had the best connection with the prostitute Mary, the 81 census boys were not born then.T he lack of anything in 71 is a problem, but Sarah in 81 is a widow and IN 81 prostitute Mary is in Castle Alley. I am not saying prostitute Mary is our Mary I just want to eliminate her. There are more complications with other families deaths and births. I am sending off for several certificates to try and clarify the situation and will report back as soon as I have cleared things up. Probably in a couple of weeks. Its very interesting and there are so many bloody kellies in London.

Miss Marple

[joelhall]

Just curious, and don't know why I didn't think of it before, but if the man in MJK's life was believed to have links to the continent, and searches for Morganstone have turned up blank, could it be that he was from the continent himself, and named Morganstierne?

[Robert]

Hi Joel

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=r7eMBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT54&lpg=PT54&dq=mrs+buki+morgansteen&source=bl&ots=4XFKjXpNds&sig=q68lYM8F-2Eb1jPHoao4fvuCO8A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBWoVChMI48G2xZG1xwIVqSnbCh0ZJQ3y#v=onepage&q=mrs%20buki%20morgansteen&f=false

[Bridewell]

Just curious, and don't know why I didn't think of it before, but if the man in MJK's life was believed to have links to the continent, and searches for Morganstone have turned up blank, could it be that he was from the continent himself, and named Morganstierne?

Morganstone has been identified - as has Mrs Buki (Buercke)