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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

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  #621  
Old 07-24-2018, 02:51 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
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Originally Posted by rjpalmer View Post
Elizabeth Long saw Annie Chapman in Hanbury Street shortly before her murder on Sept 8. By all appearances, Long didn't come forward until Sept. 11th. A three day delay. Her moral perspective was obviously flawed.

Lawende, Levy, and Harris saw a woman they believed to have been Eddowes just outside an entry into Mitre Square. They undoubtedly learned of the murder later that morning, but certainly didn't rush down to the nick. They appear to have been discovered during house-to-house inquiries on Oct 1st --some 36 hours later. For all we know, they never would have come forward.

A lot of people are hesitant to get involved, Ben. Witnesses come forward days later, weeks later, months later. Anyone who reads true crime knows this.
Hi Rj the trouble with this is Mrs long did not know Annie and did not know she was an unfortunate and in her own words - Mrs Long saw nothing to indicate that they were not sober and apparently, it was not an unusual thing to see men and women talking together at that hour, in that locality. As far as she was concerned at that time she didn't think she saw anything out of the ordinary. That perhaps would account for the delay. Also with Lawende, he didn't know the victim or her occupation [as such], either, in fact, it was only the man he got a look at, only identifying Catherine by her clothes.
No pictures of victims to look at in the morning papers etc But with Hutch, it was different he had known Mary for three years, almost certainly known she was an unfortunate who jack was targetting. He would have known she was the victim not long after the murder, and he would have known he had a very good description of a potential killer. Even if he thought Mary was killed at 9 am he still saw someone acting dodgy [They both then came past me and the man hid down his head with his hat over his eyes. I stooped down and looked him in the face. He looked at me stern] with her only a few hours earlier. Not only that but someone who was in the very room she was killed in for at least half an hour, and as far as Hutch was concerned since he never came out could have been there all night.
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  #622  
Old 07-24-2018, 03:22 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
Hi Rj the trouble with this is Mrs long did not know Annie and did not know she was an unfortunate and in her own words - Mrs Long saw nothing to indicate that they were not sober and apparently, it was not an unusual thing to see men and women talking together at that hour, in that locality. As far as she was concerned at that time she didn't think she saw anything out of the ordinary. That perhaps would account for the delay. Also with Lawende, he didn't know the victim or her occupation [as such], either, in fact, it was only the man he got a look at, only identifying Catherine by her clothes.
Indeed. In addition, Long, Lawende and company only got a fleeting glance of the suspect as they walked past, whereas Hutchinson had a really detailed description to give, and - by his own account - he had remained at the scene for the best part of an hour, during which time he "knew" that the suspect was in the room with Kelly. A room in which she was later found horribly butchered, with no report of her having been accompanied to her room by any other man since Hutchinson left the scene.

Edit: Sorry, Harry, just noticed you'd already covered those points also. Seconded!
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 07-24-2018 at 03:34 AM.
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  #623  
Old 07-24-2018, 04:27 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert St Devil View Post
This one might be for the looney bin, rj, but any chance Jack the Ripper stuck his head out because his accomplice had been spotted? Prior to George Hutchinson, there's Blotchy and some man observing the court, possibly making for two men. After Hutchinson, Blotchy gets generally dismissed and George Hutchinson explains himself away as the man observing the court with an account of a man entirely opposite in description of Blotchy.
Not for the looney bin at all devil.
Or perhaps hutch as the rippers acomplice comes forward.
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  #624  
Old 07-24-2018, 04:31 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
Hi Rj the trouble with this is Mrs long did not know Annie and did not know she was an unfortunate and in her own words - Mrs Long saw nothing to indicate that they were not sober and apparently, it was not an unusual thing to see men and women talking together at that hour, in that locality. As far as she was concerned at that time she didn't think she saw anything out of the ordinary. That perhaps would account for the delay. Also with Lawende, he didn't know the victim or her occupation [as such], either, in fact, it was only the man he got a look at, only identifying Catherine by her clothes.
No pictures of victims to look at in the morning papers etc But with Hutch, it was different he had known Mary for three years, almost certainly known she was an unfortunate who jack was targetting. He would have known she was the victim not long after the murder, and he would have known he had a very good description of a potential killer. Even if he thought Mary was killed at 9 am he still saw someone acting dodgy [They both then came past me and the man hid down his head with his hat over his eyes. I stooped down and looked him in the face. He looked at me stern] with her only a few hours earlier. Not only that but someone who was in the very room she was killed in for at least half an hour, and as far as Hutch was concerned since he never came out could have been there all night.
Exactly Darryl.

Its a poor analogy, as i also pointed out, becaus the difference is they knew each other. The whole premise was flawed and the long post from RJ is moot.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #625  
Old 07-24-2018, 04:39 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Friend or acquaintance, the supposition is not "false". He could and should have come forward sooner, and that's that.
That's the simple truth here Sam, Ive been saying that all along. Its not reasonable to assume that delay doesn't contrast greatly with the idea of a friendship between them. You would think, if this story is intended to show him as a kindly older gentleman friend of Marys, I would expect outrage, not silence.

I stand by the position that Hutch coming forward is an attempt to re-characterize the loitering man seen by Sarah, swaying the view from suspicious possible accomplice to trusted "friend" looking out for Mary..albeit in a stalker like fashion. Perhaps the Pardon issuance on Saturday was the catalyst for a move like this, the party who was seen by Sarah may well be a contributing factor to its creation.

I think Sarah saw someone involved in some way with that Murder, and he/ they produced a Hutchinson to create the impression that he is really just a friend.
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  #626  
Old 07-24-2018, 04:51 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Edit: Sorry, Harry...
I meant Darryl. D'oh!
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  #627  
Old 07-24-2018, 05:50 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
That's the simple truth here Sam, Ive been saying that all along. Its not reasonable to assume that delay doesn't contrast greatly with the idea of a friendship between them. You would think, if this story is intended to show him as a kindly older gentleman friend of Marys, I would expect outrage, not silence.

I stand by the position that Hutch coming forward is an attempt to re-characterize the loitering man seen by Sarah, swaying the view from suspicious possible accomplice to trusted "friend" looking out for Mary..albeit in a stalker like fashion.
But that's just it Michael, there's no indication of friendship in Hutchison's statement that I can see. He shows no concern for Mary at all, in fact he specifically says he didn't have any concerns for her. If he was trying to paint himself as a trusted friend, he did a poor job of it. And if he was stalking anyone, it was Astrakhan Man.
Also, what makes you think he was older than Mary?
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  #628  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:06 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Yes, perhaps you can show me the commas in the pic you first posted, what you have now posted is totally different image. The first one does not contain commas, and I again suggest that the dashes were instead of commas to separate and highlight the various parts of the description, which you now allude to

It may be nit picking, but lets not allow speculative theories get in the way of the truth.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
I intentionally chose her second page because it seemed necessary to demonstrate to you that the writer (Hammond?) was quite able to distinguish between writing a comma, and writing a dash.
He was after all quite literate, being the court recorder as one of his duties.
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  #629  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:17 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by harry View Post
Residence was the word used in the police statement.Residence is the place a person resides.I have been almost 12 years in residence at the place I reside..It would be absolute nonsense to infer I had only been here one day if I used the term,and it is absolute nonsense to infer Hutchinson had been in residence only the day he used the term.It isn't known how long he had been staying at the Victoria Home,and there is no evidence of any other address.
Where, is the word "residence", or "resident", used, in the police or press statement?


Quote:
Hutchinson Obviousy knew what he (Hutchinso)was going to say.It was a prepared statement.Why do you believe he went to the police station?.He could not be questioned on the content of his statement until he had either fully or partially told the police what he knew.
Isn't that exactly what I described in the "process"?

Quote:
Hutchinson wasn't going to the markets when he made the remark he had no money.He doesn't mention markets.He was returning from Romford.There was no fixed objective mentioned.
Is this tied to that "residence/resident" remark above?
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Last edited by Wickerman : 07-24-2018 at 07:22 AM.
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  #630  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:33 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
...
No pictures of victims to look at in the morning papers etc But with Hutch, it was different he had known Mary for three years, almost certainly known she was an unfortunate who jack was targetting. He would have known she was the victim not long after the murder, and he would have known he had a very good description of a potential killer. Even if he thought Mary was killed at 9 am he still saw someone acting dodgy [They both then came past me and the man hid down his head with his hat over his eyes. I stooped down and looked him in the face. He looked at me stern] with her only a few hours earlier. Not only that but someone who was in the very room she was killed in for at least half an hour, and as far as Hutch was concerned since he never came out could have been there all night.
You write as if you are totally oblivious of the fact witnesses, even today, can be very reluctant to come forward, whether they know the victim or not.
Is this a false reality being created?

Any potential for you to admit that this can be (and, is) the case negates all what you wrote above.
Besides, does Hutchinson want to make himself a target?, "he looked at me stern", yes, this potential killer can identify me if I report him!
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