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  #11  
Old 11-19-2014, 03:09 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello GUT. Thanks.

OK, try this. Where would he have been located as he peeped? Moreover, how came he there?

Cheers.
LC
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2014, 03:10 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default Lux fiat.

Hello DD. No, not possible as it was not dark when she was killed. It was AFTER sun up.

Cheers.
LC
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2014, 03:16 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello GUT. Thanks.

OK, try this. Where would he have been located as he peeped?

Cheers.
LC
That bit I'm not sure about.

Quote:
Moreover, how came he there?
Followed them.

And as I intimated I don't really believe it myself yet.
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2014, 04:55 AM
Qlder Qlder is offline
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Post #7
Hello Qlder. And the "No" would be emitted when he looks up and sees Albert emerging from the privy?
Cheers.
LC
Hello Lynn.
In reply: No, no, no! Oh, no!
Quote:
... Albert Cadosch, a young carpenter living at 27 Hanbury Street walks into his back yard probably to use the outhouse. Passing the five foot tall wooden fence which separates his yard from that of number 29, he hears voices quite close. The only word he can make out is a woman saying "No!" He then heard something falling against the fence.
This bit from Casebook's Victim's section on Annie Chapman is somewhat misleading. I was addressing Moonbeggar's proposed six minute interval between hearing a woman's voice say, "No" and the noise of something against the fence. Going to the Casebook Timeline for Annie Chapman gives a better sense of how things unfolded and accords with Moonbeggar's proposition:
Quote:
SAT, SEP 8, 1888 5:20am Cadoche went into the backyard of #27. Upon his return to the house, he heard voices quite close to him. Of which, he could only make out the word "No."
SAT, SEP 8, 1888 5:25am Sun rose
SAT, SEP 8, 1888 c.5:25am Cadoche re-entered his backyard and heard a fall against the fence. Cadoche returned to the house and prepared to leave for work.
Sure, my scenario is mere speculation, but I think it is within the realms of the possible, given the facts as we know them.

Last edited by Qlder : 11-19-2014 at 04:57 AM. Reason: Addressing post as reply to LC
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  #15  
Old 11-19-2014, 05:04 AM
Qlder Qlder is offline
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Hello GUT.
Re Post #9 "... The other possibility is that it Wasn't Annie that he heard say "no" but rather someone else who had gone there for the same purpose and after that couple left Chapman and Jack arrived."
The 5 to 6 minute interval involved makes that a fairly remote possibility, wouldn't you say? Although there is the issue of Mrs Long's evidence that she saw (probably) Annie in the street with a man at 5:30.
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  #16  
Old 11-19-2014, 05:11 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello Qlder. Thanks.

Trying to ascertain when you think killer sees Albert.

"No" was, according to the story, only one word heard of many. We need some sort of context for this.

I'm game.

Cheers.
LC
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2014, 05:29 AM
Qlder Qlder is offline
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Given Cadosch was unwell, heading towards the privy and negotiating a step into the yard, I believe he must have been looking downwards as he went back out the door about 5:25am. I know I certainly hunch myself a bit and tend to look downwards when moving about while unwell. So, I suggest that Jack may have been just about to launch himself over the fence when he sees the door opening and has to abort mid-leap, hence the falling contact with the fence, and the subsequent silence as Jack waits with bated breathe to see if there is any reaction on the #27 side of the fence. Albert is too preoccupied with his own worries, so Jack gets to vanish shortly thereafter.
The voices AC heard were from his earlier excursion to the privy about 5 minutes before.

(Getting past my bedtime here in Queensland. Sorry I can't stay. Will check back tomorrow.)

Last edited by Qlder : 11-19-2014 at 05:34 AM.
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2014, 05:31 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosella View Post
How do we know that "No" was the last word of the conversation between Ripper and victim, (if it was Annie and JTR in the back yard of no. 29?) It was the last word Cadosch heard as he was going indoors, but there could have been another couple of minutes of conversation for all we know!

It's always been presumed that the "No" was an exclamation of alarm on Annie's part as she saw something in her killer's eyes or felt his hands getting near her neck, but it needn't have been like that at all.
It would also depend on how it was spoken. Was it an exclamation or not?
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2014, 08:58 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosella View Post
How do we know that "No" was the last word of the conversation between Ripper and victim, (if it was Annie and JTR in the back yard of no. 29?) It was the last word Cadosch heard as he was going indoors, but there could have been another couple of minutes of conversation for all we know!

It's always been presumed that the "No" was an exclamation of alarm on Annie's part as she saw something in her killer's eyes or felt his hands getting near her neck, but it needn't have been like that at all.
this, or it was an exclamation as she was being attacked, and the sound he heard against the fence was not Annie hitting the fence, but the ripper bumping it as he "worked" about her body.
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2014, 09:16 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Cadosche in his own words at the Inquest;

"On Saturday, Sept. 8, I got up about a quarter past five in the morning, and went into the yard. It was then about twenty minutes past five, I should think. As I returned towards the back door I heard a voice say "No" just as I was going through the door. It was not in our yard, but I should think it came from the yard of No. 29. I, however, cannot say on which side it came from. I went indoors, but returned to the yard about three or four minutes afterwards. While coming back I heard a sort of a fall against the fence which divides my yard from that of 29. It seemed as if something touched the fence suddenly".

I would think that the "fall" against the fence in #29 solidifies the notion that what he heard originally also came from #29, and when considering the timing of Annies discovery and the time Cadosche hears these sounds its virtually impossible that IF he honestly testified, the sounds were not of Annie and her killer.

Its why I contend Mrs Long did not see Annie, and why I contend that the doctors were inaccurate with their estimates of how long she had lain there. Richardson would have had to have seen a body there if it was at around 4:45, and he didn't.

And to imagine that the sounds were from someone or a couple preceding Annie into the yard, I need only remind us of the discovery time. All that was done to Annie must have taken nearly a quarter to a half hour...even Phillips said as much.

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