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  #1201  
Old 10-27-2017, 01:45 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Two narrow slips (i.e. strips) of flesh do not give you a Miller's Court scenario, and probably not a Hanbury St scenario either. Certainly it doesn't give you a Bucks Row or Mitre Square scenario, because no slips, strips or flaps were involved there.
The word narrow was never used. The word large was. And long. A slip can be of very many different sizes. The slip of your tongue when you say "narrow" in this context, for example, is huge.
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  #1202  
Old 10-27-2017, 01:58 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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The word narrow was never used. The word large was. And long. A slip can be of very many different sizes. The slip of your tongue when you say "narrow" in this context, for example, is huge.
No, a "slip" is another word for a "strip". The definition of a strip is "a long, narrow piece" (Cambridge online dictionary), and, from the Collins Dictionary, "A strip of something such as paper, cloth, or food is a long, narrow piece of it".
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  #1203  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:08 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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What must be understood is that the extent to which these things are done is always subordinate to the fact that they ARE done. As I keep saying, the practice is a million times more important than the extent.

Let´s try another angle, another example:

In A-town, three women are found murdered. Victim number one is found strangled in her own home, victim number two is found shot to death in a garage and victim number three is found stabbed to death in the open street.

How will the police reason? They will reason like this:

Nothing in the surrounding circumstances speaks of a single killer being repsonsible. However, if there is a significant rise in the homicide levels, the police will be alert about the possibility of a connection.

Now, add an ingredient: all the victims were found with a buttock, or part of a buttock, cut away. In the first case, all of the left buttock was cut away in three sections that were left at the crime scene, in the second, seventy per cent of the right buttock was cut away in four parts, mainly to the right hand side of the buttock, and left at the crime scene and in the third case, the mid-section of the left buttock was cut away in two long, parallel parts, leaving half of the buttock missing. In this case, the parts were not left at the crime scene, but instead found dumped in an adjoining street.

What will the police make of that? Probably three killers, who coincidentally happened to cut away buttocks? Or definitely one and the same killer, with a very specific calling card?

What happens if we furthermore change the goalposts and say that all three women were killed by sharp violence?

It does not matter - the police would already have made their minds up that a single killer was prowling the streets of their community.

In the Rippertorso murders, we have varying cases that muddle the picture. But the fact that victims from both series had their abdominal walls cut away cannot be muddled. It remains, and it is a surefire indicator of how at least these three cases were one mans work.
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  #1204  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:13 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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No, a "slip" is another word for a "strip". The definition of a strip is "a long, narrow piece" (Cambridge online dictionary), and, from the Collins Dictionary, "A strip of something such as paper, cloth, or food is a long, narrow piece of it".
Go have a look at the internet and see how many shapes are given the eptiteth "slip", Gareth. 2 x 12 inches is a slip. 30 x 10 inches is a slip. 4 x 10 inches is a slip.

The only thing required to be a slip, basically, is that the shape spoken of is a longish one. There is no definition or limit described about how length and width must relate to each other to make a slip.

It is a futile efort on your behalf, therefore. And Hebbert used "slip", not "strip", by the way. He spoke of two LARGE and LONG flaps, but he never said a word about any narrow flap.
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  #1205  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:23 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Some more help:

Imagine the twodimensional shape of a watermelon, roughly. It resembles the abdominal wall, sort of.

Now, divide it in three parts, all of roughly equal shape. Take a look at the three parts.

Then divide it in FOUR roughly equally shaped parts. And look at those four parts.

Do anyone of there parts look like a slip to you? No?

Okay, then try this: divide the watermelon shape in two parallel parts along the long stretch of the watermelon shape.

And see what happened, all of a sudden - we got slips!

Let´s now take away only fifty per cent of the watermelon shape in the same way. Divide it in the middle along the long stretch, and then take away half of the remaining shape. And me oh my - we got two narrower slips!

Amazing, is it not?
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  #1206  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:36 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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all the victims were found with a buttock, or part of a buttock, cut away. In the first case, all of the left buttock was cut away in three sections that were left at the crime scene, in the second, seventy per cent of the right buttock was cut away in four parts, mainly to the right hand side of the buttock
What about part of the skin of the buttock?That's what we get in the torso murders... well, just one of them, anyway.
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But the fact that victims from both series had their abdominal walls cut away cannot be muddled. It remains, and it is a surefire indicator of how at least these three cases were one mans work.
Part of the abdominal wall being cut away does not mean the abdominal wall was cut away. And a cut into the abdomen, no matter how long, does not mean that the abdominal wall was "cut away" at all. Eddowes' abdomen was cut open, but her abdominal wall was not cut away, ditto Nichols, ditto some of the torso victims.

Be more precise, and stop generalising.
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  #1207  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:36 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
In the Rippertorso murders, we have varying cases that muddle the picture. But the fact that victims from both series had their abdominal walls cut away cannot be muddled. It remains, and it is a surefire indicator of how at least these three cases were one mans work.
I see you've even coined a new nickname for your expanded series, one that is essentially your argument here. Its important that you talk of apples and organs Fisherman, and as you stated above, the picture is muddled on quite a few of these cases. Only some victims fit your theory, the rest you seem content to draw into the same series because of what I assume is an assumption that the likelihood was that only 1 man was running amok at the time.

I wouldn't hesitate to accept a sound theory that explains why the differences are so vast in some cases, (Stride-Kelly), I suspect though that this has more to do with intentional mimicry, in tribute to, as an homage, as a means of confusing an investigation, than any single mad killer who, seemingly at will, alters what he is doing without any intervention or provocation.

You can argue about how skillfully Annies killer went about his business, but its hard to dispute the fact that it appears as if the whole procedure was about obtaining what he obtained. Specificity. The fact that this goal, same area and same organ taken, is repeated in the Eddowes murder is one of the things that connects this loosely with Chapman, neither can be connected with any Torso murder. There is no evidence within the Torso murders that the abdomen was the focus. Dismemberment was the focus. Something that is in none of the Canonicals...except perhaps that Marys right arm is almost separated from her body.
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  #1208  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:37 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Some more help:

Imagine the twodimensional shape of a watermelon, roughly. It resembles the abdominal wall, sort of.

Now, divide it in three parts, all of roughly equal shape. Take a look at the three parts.

Then divide it in FOUR roughly equally shaped parts. And look at those four parts.

Do anyone of there parts look like a slip to you? No?

Okay, then try this: divide the watermelon shape in two parallel parts along the long stretch of the watermelon shape.

And see what happened, all of a sudden - we got slips!

Let´s now take away only fifty per cent of the watermelon shape in the same way. Divide it in the middle along the long stretch, and then take away half of the remaining shape. And me oh my - we got two narrower slips!

Amazing, is it not?
What's amazing is your irritating habit of trying to make the evidence fit your preconceptions.

I've had enough of this.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 10-27-2017 at 02:39 AM.
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  #1209  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:50 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Dismemberment was the focus. Something that is in none of the Canonicals...except perhaps that Marys right arm is almost separated from her body.
Whoa there, Mike! Bond said that her arm was "slightly abducted" from the body. He's using a specific medical term, which merely means that her arm wasn't clamped to her right side, but was displaced a little bit away from the body (much like the hands of a clock at, say, 6:33 or 6:35).

Good post otherwise.
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  #1210  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:53 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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What's amazing is your irritating habit of trying to make the evidence fit your preconceptions.

I've had enough of this.
Actually, you have not. And I am not the one trying to make the evidence fit my preconceptions - you are. I am not saying that the flaps must have looked like this or that - but you ARE! To you, the Jackson flaps were narrow strips, for example. Which is NOT in evidence at all.

Have a look at this link:

https://imageshack.com/i/poZvAe56j

There, you will see thre possible representations of the damage done to the three abdomens. Please observe that they are suggestions only, but they are nevertheless representations that are fully viable.

Have a look and then tell me I must be wrong! Note that the flaps from Jackson are large, long, irregular slips.

But don´t try and peddle the idea that I am the one fitting the evidence. Nobody will buy it.

Last edited by Fisherman : 10-27-2017 at 03:18 AM.
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