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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

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  #261  
Old 12-21-2017, 07:43 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
But I'm not discarding it, thats the point, it was already discarded.
It's just yourself and a handful of others who turn a blind eye to the fact.

The claim by the Star was already redundant by their own reporters the very next day when they reported the Galloway sighting and the response that the constable was "looking for a man of a very different appearance". Very Different to Blotchy - Astrachan, he was the only other prime suspect.

Michael, answer this question - how can the Star write on the 15th that Hutchinson's story is discredited, then on the 16th write that a Met. constable is looking for the Hutchinson suspect?
Hutchinson cannot be dismissed as a viable witness, and accepted as a viable witness, at the same time.

And, just to rub it in, on the 19th, the Echo report the police are equally interested in both suspects - Blotchy & Astrachan.
This isn't me rejecting a viable source (the Star), the source was not trustworthy by their own admission, and the claim by the Star was superseded by the Echo four days later.

I'm the one who is following the evidence, as it transpires, in sequence, whereas you are the one who is rejecting later sources.
Why is that Michael?




We have Hutchinson's own words that a fellow lodger talked him in to coming forward, so he doesn't say he suddenly decided to go to police himself.
wicker
your being naughty again:

Quote:
Michael, answer this question - how can the Star write on the 15th that Hutchinson's story is discredited, then on the 16th write that a Met. constable is looking for the Hutchinson suspect?
he dosnt say hes looking for the hutch suspect, hes says

"I then informed the constable of what I had seen, and pointed out the man's extraordinary resemblance to the individual described by Cox. The constable declined to arrest the man, saying that he was looking for a man of a very different appearance."


Another one of your little twisty turnies--coal in the stocking for you!!
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #262  
Old 12-21-2017, 01:36 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Agreed that the Star "discredited" report should be scrutinised like any other, but why would they make it up? Perhaps it was an error but, on the other hand, perhaps they got it from a reputable source. Police opinion, it seems, was divided along Blotchy vs Astrakhan lines,was it not?
:-) did you read the whole post Gareth?

You asked, "why would they make it up?", but I didn't say they made it up.
Ok, lets just take these brief comments...

The Echo wrote on the 13th:
"..very reduced importance seems to be now - in the light of later investigation - attached to a statement".

But the Star had reported on the same day - 13th:
"the police are said to attach a good deal of importance to the man's statement."

It's the opposite, right!, someone is out of step with the investigation.

Then again on the 14th, the Echo wrote:
"..The police do not attach so much importance to this document as some of our contemporaries do...."

But on the 14th, the Star are publishing the Central News interview with Hutchinson - out of step again?

There was a sudden change by the Star on the 15th, and the Star offer no justification for that change.

This is not unusual for the Star, we can read several stories published by the Star which have been borrowed from the dailies, or they publish conclusions to stories first published by their contemporaries - in this case it's the Echo.

We have the Echo reporting of doubt on the 13th, but on the same day the Star wrote that the police did believe the story.
Then again on the 14th the Echo express more doubt, so now the Star realizing they are not ahead of the game conclude - Ha, the S.O.B. lied!
so they come up with the claim his story is "discredited".
A complete reversal of their position as reported on the 13th and 14th.

The Star didn't make anything up, they reversed their position and followed the Echo, but tried to jump ahead by making an exaggerated claim.

The Echo were consistent, the Star are inconsistent, and as a result make an exaggerated claim, but not based on any privy information, just the need to appear to be on top of the story.
But it failed, Hutchinson's story was still being followed for the next several days.
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  #263  
Old 12-21-2017, 01:39 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post

Another one of your little twisty turnies--coal in the stocking for you!!
At least your tone is more mature.
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  #264  
Old 12-21-2017, 02:11 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
:-) did you read the whole post Gareth?

You asked, "why would they make it up?", but I didn't say they made it up.
I wasn't suggesting that you did, Jon. My point was that the Star was unlikely to have made it up, so it was either a mistake or somebody told them that they no longer believed Hutchinson's story.

I'd suggest that the latter possibility seems likely, because there is at least some evidence - from both the Star and the Echo - that police opinion was somewhat split on this matter.
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  #265  
Old 12-21-2017, 02:18 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Speaking of the Echo...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
"From latest inquiries it appears that a very reduced importance seems to be now - in the light of later investigation - attached to a statement made by a person last night that he saw a man with the deceased on the night of the murder."
Echo, 13 Nov.

The above is the only indication we have of any caution being applied to the story by Hutchinson. Not that his story was discredited, or dismissed, but it is now not as important as first thought.
It's not as mild as "not as important", though, is it? The Echo says "a very reduced importance". That, in itself, is congruent with Hutchinson's story being discredited by at least some of the officials, and that more than one paper got to hear about it.
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  #266  
Old 12-21-2017, 03:01 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
At least your tone is more mature.
Thank you Mr Wickerman(said in mature tone).
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #267  
Old 12-21-2017, 03:05 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Speaking of the Echo...
It's not as mild as "not as important", though, is it? The Echo says "a very reduced importance". That, in itself, is congruent with Hutchinson's story being discredited by at least some of the officials, and that more than one paper got to hear about it.
HI Sam
considering all the other embarresments the police faced over this case, including BS witnesses like packer and violenia, I'm sure they wouldn't want to shout it from the roof tops that they had been duped yet again if they thought they had.

Merry Christmas BTW, hope your feeling better!
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #268  
Old 12-21-2017, 04:11 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
HI Sam
considering all the other embarresments the police faced over this case, including BS witnesses like packer and violenia, I'm sure they wouldn't want to shout it from the roof tops that they had been duped yet again if they thought they had.

Merry Christmas BTW, hope your feeling better!
Although some were trying to be helpful,including all the BS witnesses (reporting suspicious people and drunk people) except those in/near the crime scenes,Lawende.Long,Cox,etc..It's also faulty reasoning that just because a witness has not been discredited in a week or two that they must have been telling the truth.
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Last edited by Varqm : 12-21-2017 at 04:14 PM.
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  #269  
Old 12-21-2017, 04:29 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Even if the police were fooled by Hutchinson I am willing to cut them a little slack. Provided he didn't seem to be of alien origin or drunk or mentally ill or didn't immediately start asking about reward money why wouldn't they believe him especially if they believed this could be a huge lead which might crack the case? It is easy for us in 2017 to point the finger and say they dropped the ball but we don't even know that for sure and we are not under enormous pressure like they were to solve the case.

c.d.
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  #270  
Old 12-21-2017, 04:36 PM
Hatchett Hatchett is offline
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It could just be that Hutchinson was an honest Joe who had met Kelly that night and wanted to be of help. His help evidently led to nothing and so he put it to the back of his mind and was as dumbfounded as everyone else.
Merry Christmas everyone.
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