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  #1  
Old 02-16-2018, 03:13 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Default A little assistance with a research project.......

Ladies/Gents,

I wonder if anyone could assist me with a little research I'm working on?

I'd be grateful if someone could confirm what address the MOTTRAM family were living at in 1881?

I have been unable to find the father and daughter on the 1891 census. But the mother and son appear to have moved to Bethnal Green by then.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!!
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Old 02-16-2018, 03:18 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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By 91 daughter may be married.

Dad perhaps dead.
__________________
G U T

There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.
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  #3  
Old 02-16-2018, 03:19 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
By 91 daughter may be married.

Dad perhaps dead.
Which may also explain the move
__________________
G U T

There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.
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  #4  
Old 02-16-2018, 05:12 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
By 91 daughter may be married.

Dad perhaps dead.
Daughter married is a plausible theory.

I know William was still alive in 1905 as he's given as the next of kin on Henry's discharge papers from the army he was living at 91 Jersey Street Bethnal Green (prior to that he was living in 44 Nisbet Street, Homerton).

I also know that Eliza was living at 8 Paradise Row Bethnal Green in 1902 (which is right opposite Bethnal Green Police Station), with a man called Richard HUNT (whether he was a lodger or partner I don't know. I assume William and Eliza must have parted ways sometime earlier?).

But at 20:00 hours on Monday the 24th March 1902, he was at 8 Paradise Row (being home on leave from India) when he for reasons unknown he cuts HUNT's throat with a razor and then slashes the back of his neck, which resulted in HUNT spending two weeks in the London Hospital. Being treated by JOHN HAROLD PHILBRICK house surgeon at the London Hospital & JOHN BATE surgeon of J Division.

MOTTRAM was found GUILTY, but that he committed the act in a fit of temporary insanity. Discharged on recognizances. He must have returned back to India as he didn't leave the army until 1905.

Joins East Surrey Regiment as 4369 Pte on the 29th July 1893.

Service.....

Home 29th July 1893 to 13.03.1894 (228 days)

Malta 14.03.1894 to 04.10.1895 (1 year 205 days)

India 05.10.1895 to 27.10.1905 (10 years 22 days)

1902 Appears in the Old Bailey......

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...TRAM#highlight

Home & discharged from army 28.10.1905
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:04 PM
kjab3112 kjab3112 is offline
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Hi Station Cat

Ancestry has a family with those years of birth living at 10 Bath Place, Whitechapel, but there is another son John aged one, like Henry and young Eliza was born in Bethnal Green. William is listed as born in Birmingham and as a cabinet maker

Hope of help

Paul
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:47 PM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjab3112 View Post
Hi Station Cat

Ancestry has a family with those years of birth living at 10 Bath Place, Whitechapel, but there is another son John aged one, like Henry and young Eliza was born in Bethnal Green. William is listed as born in Birmingham and as a cabinet maker

Hope of help

Paul
Many thanks Paul, that's a greatly appreciated!!!!

I've come across Bath Place before, I believe it was off Brady Street, opposite Buck's Row?
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:51 PM
kjab3112 kjab3112 is offline
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I've looked at the 1901 census: Hunt is listed as a 24 year old boarder with Eliza and William is listed in what I think is a workhouse (but not certain). I can't find William on the 1891 census but he does have a workhouse entry about that time so he may be hidden in a workhouse list somewhere. There were other children including a William (Jr) and Clara. I'd guess William and Eliza split before 1891 as she is listed as head of household although still married.

Paul
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:23 AM
PaulWilliams PaulWilliams is offline
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I'm thinking that this is the family listed in the 1871 census at Eastman Street, Bethnal Green. William was born 1845 in Birmingham and employed then as a tin-plate worker. Eliza born 1847, Eliza M born 1868 and Alfred born 1870.

There was a William Mottram, age 55, who died in Bethnal Green in 1901. Is it possible that Henry either didn't know he was dead or listed him as next of kin anyway in the absence of other relatives?
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:08 PM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Thanks guys for taking the time to post on my thread, it's very interesting.



I wonder whether William had died in 1902 and that's way Henry was home on leave from India, seems a long way to come on leave otherwise? I also wonder just how much information is retained from these Old Bailey cases, surely information like his father having died would have formed part of the case? Or certainly been brought up by the defence in mitigation?






What I also find interesting is the parish boundaries, Bath Row (if I've got the right one, appears to be in Bethnal Green, certainly appears to have been on J Divisions patch, yet is documented as being on Whitechapel in the 1881 census?
Has anyone got a period map so I can confirm exactly where it was? Wasn't there a bath house near Goulston Street/Angel Alley at one point?
I assume public bath houses were dotted all over the place?
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:27 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Station Cat View Post
Thanks guys for taking the time to post on my thread, it's very interesting.



I wonder whether William had died in 1902 and that's way Henry was home on leave from India, seems a long way to come on leave otherwise? I also wonder just how much information is retained from these Old Bailey cases, surely information like his father having died would have formed part of the case? Or certainly been brought up by the defence in mitigation?






What I also find interesting is the parish boundaries, Bath Row (if I've got the right one, appears to be in Bethnal Green, certainly appears to have been on J Divisions patch, yet is documented as being on Whitechapel in the 1881 census?
Has anyone got a period map so I can confirm exactly where it was? Wasn't there a bath house near Goulston Street/Angel Alley at one point?
I assume public bath houses were dotted all over the place?
Hi SC. I thought you'd been unable to locate a Bath Row in Bethnal Green (there are some in other parts of London)?
If Bath Row = Bath Place then, according to this 1877 parish map

http://mapco.net/parish/parish11.htm

the boundary between Whitechapel and Bethnal Green seems to have run across Bath Street and along most of, then across, Bath Place.
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