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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Police Officials and Procedures > General Police Discussion

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  #1  
Old 04-14-2015, 05:55 AM
PC2267 PC2267 is offline
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Default PC J Sampson H Division

Ladies/Gents,

I recently bought a Jubilee/Coronation medal group to a Metropolitan Police Officer PC J Sampson. His 1897 medal is named to H Division, but at some point he transferred as his 1902 is named to V Division. I think I've found him in the 1901 census, living in Mile End Old Town (he's the only J Sampson with a police connection from the Tower Hamlets area & was born in 1867 so I'm assuming he's the right one?).

I know that the census was conducted on the 31st March 1901 and the Coronation took place on 2nd August 1902, so at some point during that 15 month or so period he has transferred. I haven't as yet obtained his service papers, but plan to do so in due course (will have to look into how I go about doing that). But in the interim is anyone an authority on the 1897 Jubilee Medal? I was wondering just how long an Officer had to have been in service for in order to qualify for it. I believe you had to have been in 5 years to qualify for the 2012 version. Is the same true for the 1897 one or could an Officer have started his training he day before and qualified for it? This I hope will give me a rough idea just how long he served in H Division, as it stands now I assume he must have been there at least 4 years.

Which brings me onto my next question. Did Officers get posted to areas where they grew up? I know the Met tended to recruit men from the country or ex army types. The reason I ask is that I've found a James Sampson on the 1881,1891 census from Bethnal Green, who was born in 1867.
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Old 04-14-2015, 05:58 AM
PC2267 PC2267 is offline
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Here's what I believe to be the correct Sampson on the various census's. As I say it's just guess work that the details are correct at this stage. As I haven't even confirmed his first name was James yet....
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Old 04-14-2015, 04:43 PM
Rosella Rosella is offline
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I'm certainly no authority on police medals but I've found this below about the Golden Jubilee medal and I'd imagine it was the same for police officers in 1897.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryofthewo...S0ucQ7vxRKuBzQ

The Jubilee medal seems to have been widely awarded to many in all sorts of services from St John's Ambulance to fire brigade officers to Naval Reservists etc. This was all over the then Empire, too.

Monty is the expert on the Victorian police force, but I read only a little while ago that the proportion of country boys and ex soldiers joining the Met has been exaggerated and in fact many 'townies' following all kinds of working class occupations joined the police force.

If you were born in say Camden and joined up you could be based in Camden afterwards but I would say that would be pure coincidence. New police would have been stationed where they were needed not the places they were used to. Just my guess!
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Old 04-15-2015, 01:14 AM
PC2267 PC2267 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosella View Post
I'm certainly no authority on police medals but I've found this below about the Golden Jubilee medal and I'd imagine it was the same for police officers in 1897.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryofthewo...S0ucQ7vxRKuBzQ

The Jubilee medal seems to have been widely awarded to many in all sorts of services from St John's Ambulance to fire brigade officers to Naval Reservists etc. This was all over the then Empire, too.

Monty is the expert on the Victorian police force, but I read only a little while ago that the proportion of country boys and ex soldiers joining the Met has been exaggerated and in fact many 'townies' following all kinds of working class occupations joined the police force.

If you were born in say Camden and joined up you could be based in Camden afterwards but I would say that would be pure coincidence. New police would have been stationed where they were needed not the places they were used to. Just my guess!

Many thanks for your reply Rosella!

I believe that the link is incorrect, if I'm reading it correctly it suggests that the 1897 medal was issued unnamed? "Unlike the Jubilee Medal 1897, this medal (the 1887 example) was issued named to the constable." But that's a topic for another thread.

I was particularly interested in the new information about the numbers of country boys & ex soldiers being recruited having been exaggerated! So perhaps James Sampson I've found on the census from Bethnal Green could in fact be the same guy?

I have also been able to ascertain some brief details about his service (it's a work ongoing), which makes documents, the following..

Warrant No. 74634 James Sampson (so it does appear to be the same guy?)

He joined the Met 15/07/89 as a PC in R Div. The most northerly part of R Division isn't a million miles away from Bethnal Green, so perhaps he requested a posting nearer to home (H or J Division), after doing his probation period and got H Division. He was certainly there by 1897 as his medal is named to that Division, as we know.

He was pensioned 20/07/14 as a PC in L. If the census James Sampson is the right one, Holborn is only on the other side of the Thames from L Division.

His medal entitlement is
1897 Jubilee PC H Div
1902 Coronation PC V Div
1911 Coronation PC
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:56 AM
Rosella Rosella is offline
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There's a Detective Sergeant Sampson listed on the thread 'H Division Personnel' here on the forum, for 1888. Too old to be your guy, higher rank and no Christian name mentioned. Still, it's a fairly unusual surname and it may have been a relative, (father, uncle?)
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Old 04-15-2015, 04:44 AM
Robert Robert is offline
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Hi PC

It looks like your chap was at the police station, High St, Eltham in 1891.
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Old 04-15-2015, 04:55 AM
PC2267 PC2267 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Hi PC

It looks like your chap was at the police station, High St, Eltham in 1891.
Thanks Robert, that would certainly fit in with the R Division posting wouldn't it. So by that rational he can't be the same James Sampson on the census as living in Bethnal Green can he?

The Eltham station avenue is certainly a further line of research for me, where did you find that information?
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Old 04-15-2015, 04:57 AM
PC2267 PC2267 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosella View Post
There's a Detective Sergeant Sampson listed on the thread 'H Division Personnel' here on the forum, for 1888. Too old to be your guy, higher rank and no Christian name mentioned. Still, it's a fairly unusual surname and it may have been a relative, (father, uncle?)
Yes I did come across him during my opening research. Might be a relative, but couldn't find him on the census, unless he lived somewhere else in London and was drafted in for the Ripper case perhaps?
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Old 04-15-2015, 05:38 AM
Robert Robert is offline
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Hi PC

I found it on Find My Past.

I think the Bethnal Green man was a carman.
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Old 04-15-2015, 05:55 AM
PC2267 PC2267 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Hi PC

I found it on Find My Past.

I think the Bethnal Green man was a carman.

Thanks Robert!! That's very interesting!! Does it happen to note when in 1891 this was. If the two Bethnal Green James SAMPSON's are carman then I can eliminate them from research. I think the 1891 James SAMPSON listed as Mile End Old Town, appears to have been a police officer. If this is correct then it would suggest his posting to H Division was after the find my past entry but before the 1891 census, he was in V Division by 1902. Could it be that he served 10 years out of his 25 years service in H Division? That would leave 15 years for R,V & L Divisions. He certainly got around a bit didn't he!!
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