Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Batman 22 minutes ago.
Mary Ann Nichols: What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed? - by MrBarnett 24 minutes ago.
Scene of the Crimes: The Bucks Row Project Summary Report. - by Herlock Sholmes 29 minutes ago.
Scene of the Crimes: The Bucks Row Project Summary Report. - by Fisherman 40 minutes ago.
Scene of the Crimes: The Bucks Row Project Summary Report. - by Herlock Sholmes 46 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Sam Flynn 48 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - (61 posts)
Mary Ann Nichols: What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed? - (14 posts)
Scene of the Crimes: The Bucks Row Project Summary Report. - (9 posts)
Klosowski, Severin (George Chapman): special k and George yard - (4 posts)
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - (2 posts)
Catherine Eddowes: Mitre Sq., arranged meeting scenarios - (2 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Police Officials and Procedures > Anderson, Sir Robert

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 06-05-2008, 12:47 AM
Stewart P Evans Stewart P Evans is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,994
Default Significance

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_c View Post
I dont understand the significance now being placed on Anderson's 1889 interview. What little we know of Kosminski suggests that he wasnt suspected until some time after the Kelly murder. A year or more afterwards is often suggested.
The significance being placed on Anderson's August 1889 interview is that it indicates that he had no idea who Jack the Ripper was at that time and that seems to conclusively negate Martin Fido's Cohen theory. The point that tells against Anderson's claims is that the police initially believed Sadler may have been the Ripper in February 1891.
__________________
SPE

Treat me gently I'm a newbie.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-05-2008, 12:51 AM
Natalie Severn Natalie Severn is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Posts: 4,863
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_c View Post
I dont understand the significance now being placed on Anderson's 1889 interview. What little we know of Kosminski suggests that he wasnt suspected until some time after the Kelly murder. A year or more afterwards is often suggested.
Well Jason, would you be so good as to provide the evidence for that statement about just when Kosminski was suspected?Just as Stewart has provided regarding this illuminating and little known report .
Thankyou
Norma
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-05-2008, 01:20 AM
jason_c jason_c is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 796
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie Severn View Post
Well Jason, would you be so good as to provide the evidence for that statement about just when Kosminski was suspected?Just as Stewart has provided regarding this illuminating and little known report .
Thankyou
Norma
The main evidence against him seems to have been his identification by the unnamed witness. Swanson's inscription about the Seaside Home and various claims that Kosminski was already incarcerated in an Asylum when this identification took place suggests sometime after 1890.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-05-2008, 01:31 AM
Roy Corduroy Roy Corduroy is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,590
Default

Jason,

Must reading on this subject is Stewart's dissertation Kosminski and the Seaside Home which you can find on the Suspects - Kosminski tab on this site.

Hope this helps,

Roy
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-05-2008, 01:43 AM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 424
Default

Natalie - What Jason is saying is that since most historians date the investigtion of Aaron Kosminski to late 1890/early 1891 (ie., shortly before his commital) Anderson's November 1889 statement of the 'failure' of the investigation is damning in regards to Cohen, but it is not daming in regards to Aaron Kosminski who, presumably, wan't even on the radar yet. Murder investigation are frequently solved years after-the-fact, though this was rare in bygone years, due to the relatively crude state of forensic science.

I don't find Anderson's complaint to Harding Davis particularly daming in regards to Druitt or Tumblety or Kosminski. Anderson always framed his claims in the cloak of 'moral' v. 'legal' evidence. If the Ripper had slipped the net by plunging in the Thames, or by slipping over to Le Havre, Anderson would have been all too happy to blame the 'failure' of the investigation on the difficulties of police work in East London regardless of his true opinions. This doesn't really work in relationshp to David Cohen, however, who was taken into permanent custody at the turn of 1889 and died shortly afterwards. Rgds. RP

Last edited by rjpalmer : 06-05-2008 at 01:47 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-05-2008, 01:56 AM
Natalie Severn Natalie Severn is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Posts: 4,863
Default

Hi RJ,
How anyone can trust a word Anderson said on the matter really surprises me.Will return to this thread tomorrow.
Night All
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-05-2008, 02:13 AM
sdreid sdreid is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: McWopetaz Metroplex, Illinois U. S. of A.
Posts: 4,957
Default

Does anyone think that the police would have just allowed a person to walk away after identifying the Ripper because he refused to testify. And, if that was an issue with the witness, why would he be stupid enough to make the identification in the first place?
__________________
This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

Stan Reid
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-05-2008, 02:29 AM
Chris Chris is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,840
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjpalmer View Post
Natalie - What Jason is saying is that since most historians date the investigtion of Aaron Kosminski to late 1890/early 1891 (ie., shortly before his commital) Anderson's November 1889 statement of the 'failure' of the investigation is damning in regards to Cohen, but it is not daming in regards to Aaron Kosminski who, presumably, wan't even on the radar yet.
I do think it's worth questioning the assumption that Aaron was not suspected until late 1890 or early 1891, though.

To my mind, it rests mainly on a single phrase in the Swanson Marginalia - "In a very short time [after the 'identification'] ... he was sent to Stepney Workhouse and then to Colney Hatch ..." - which seems to place the 'identification' soon before February 1891.

But as Swanson was obviously confused about some of the details - for example the phrase quoted above is immediately followed by "... and died shortly afterwards", which certainly doesn't apply to Aaron Kozminski, who survived for another 28 years - I think this should be treated with caution.

I can think of two other statements that could also be pressed into service:

(1) Anderson's "caged in an asylum", in the Blackwood's Magazine version of his memoirs. But this was removed from the monograph version, and seems nonsensical in relation to the question of whether a witness would give evidence against the suspect. If Anderson's "asylum" were Swanson's "Seaside Home", then it could hardly be Colney Hatch (or Leavesden either, for that matter).

(2) Swanson's "Seaside Home" - on the assumption that he was referring to the Convalescent Police Seaside Home, founded in March 1890. But of course that is only an assumption ...
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-05-2008, 05:00 AM
Roy Corduroy Roy Corduroy is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,590
Default

Hi Chris,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I do think it's worth questioning the assumption that Aaron was not suspected until late 1890 or early 1891, though.
In a general sense he was, he was in the area of the police sweeps. I'm a rookie at this, and that is my point of reference, the sweeps. But no, there is no specific information that he was particularly suspected until his first mental episode. There is nothing new in that way. As to your other points, again, Kosminski and the Seaside Home by Stewart Evans will answer all those. Or at least to my satisfaction. I try to read it as a whole. The foundation laid, the bullets, the assumptions reached. I can't really take it apart and go point by point.

Hope this helps,

Roy
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-05-2008, 06:51 AM
Stewart P Evans Stewart P Evans is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,994
Default 1892

Many have tried to make sense of the various bits of information we have been left by Anderson, Macnaghten and Swanson, as well as other senior police officers who made comment on this baffing mystery. It is a pity that these 'big three' didn't leave more and at least make it easier for us by not having so many contradictions and errors in what they do say.

The earliest public comment made by Anderson about who the murderer might have been was in an interview published June 1892 when all he said was, "...there is my answer to people who come with fads and theories about these murders. It is impossible to believe they were acts of a sane man - they were those of a maniac revelling in blood."

This statement reveals some frustration on Anderson's part at the subject of the murders being raised. His 'fads and theories' remark is reminiscent of the way he spoke about the "troublesome faddist" E. K. Larkins back in January 1889. Anderson would most certainly have disliked Ripperologists!

So we can say that the series of unsolved murders of 1888 was a sore point with Anderson and an inauspicious highlight of the start of his CID career - it was still on his mind in 1910. But does this 1892 piece indicate that Anderson knew the identity of the murderer? It certainly reveals that he thought him insane.
__________________
SPE

Treat me gently I'm a newbie.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.