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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > General Victim Discussion

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  #21  
Old 10-30-2015, 09:51 AM
Errata Errata is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curious4 View Post
Hello Errata

According to a friend of mine, who is a highly qualified psychiatrist , a murderer would attack mouths because they had said cruel or critical things, noses because "they shouldn't poke their noses in", eyes because they have seen things, ears because they have been eavesdropping. I wonder, if the idea was to make Mary unattractive, why he didn't cut off her hair, one of her best features. Personally in this case I think there was no motive other than that he enjoyed doing what he did.

Best wishes
C4
Those symbols assume a previous relationship with the victim, and also assume a "tit for tat" punishment is enough for the killer, which it often isn't.

And some mutilators have described a need to "even the playing field", where they cut their victims face because their self esteem is so low, that they need their victim to be as damaged as they are in order to rape or murder them. I don't think that's the case here, though I could probably make an argument for it, but cutting up a woman's face is almost never as simple as straight symbolic punishment. Especially among strangers or lovers.

And if he didn't enjoy it, he wouldn't have done it. He had to get something out of it, enjoyment, satisfaction, revenge, redemption. Something.

It's also worth pointing out that women get their faces mutilated more than men do, by a considerable percentage if I recall. It means more to cut up a woman than a man. There's a reason for that, and it's not based on revenge.
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Last edited by Errata : 10-30-2015 at 09:55 AM.
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  #22  
Old 10-31-2015, 03:55 PM
Karl Karl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Carter View Post
Hmm

The cutting off of one's nose to spite/save ones face.



Whilst I have no real belief in any facial mutilation connected to the theme Pierre has brought forward here, the above line is perhaps a little more apt in the circumstances of the two final C5 victims.

I only write this with the thinking. .IF the killer is trying to display a message of sorts... The message is clever enough to go unobserved. Suggesting it to be TOO clever.
However, exactly who would actually use such a tactic, is another issue all together.

Because if the message after Eddowes wasn't clear enough, the message was after MJK.

Why? Because the murders stopped.

I'm not suggesting this IS the case, but do suggest it is food for thought.

Thoughts anyone?



Phil
Well, I guess it was no skin off his nose, then. Ah, ah, ah.
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  #23  
Old 10-31-2015, 05:21 PM
Rosemary Rosemary is offline
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Default Malinowskit, Pierre

Pierre... Malinowski please read this
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  #24  
Old 10-31-2015, 05:22 PM
Rosemary Rosemary is offline
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Default Malinowskit, Pierre

Pierre... Malinowski please read this what ever, sha
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  #25  
Old 10-31-2015, 05:29 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Default Which title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
Pierre... Malinowski please read this what ever, sha
Bronislaw Malinowski wrote lots of books-- which one did you have in mind, Rosemary?

Or am I confused?
(Happy Halloween, by the way!)
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  #26  
Old 11-04-2015, 09:38 PM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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Pierre, I have a question for you.

Where do you hide a tree?

Please allow Pierre to answer this one.
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  #27  
Old 11-04-2015, 10:50 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Carter View Post
Hmm

The cutting off of one's nose to spite/save ones face.



Whilst I have no real belief in any facial mutilation connected to the theme Pierre has brought forward here, the above line is perhaps a little more apt in the circumstances of the two final C5 victims.

I only write this with the thinking. .IF the killer is trying to display a message of sorts... The message is clever enough to go unobserved. Suggesting it to be TOO clever.
However, exactly who would actually use such a tactic, is another issue all together.

Because if the message after Eddowes wasn't clear enough, the message was after MJK.

Why? Because the murders stopped.

I'm not suggesting this IS the case, but do suggest it is food for thought.

Thoughts anyone?



Phil
Well, they did not stop. There was one dismemberment case and there was McKenzie.

Regards Pierre
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  #28  
Old 11-04-2015, 10:51 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayerling View Post
Pierre, I have a question for you.

Where do you hide a tree?

Please allow Pierre to answer this one.
Hi,

That´s a riddle.

Regards Pierre

Last edited by Pierre : 11-04-2015 at 10:53 PM.
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  #29  
Old 11-04-2015, 11:43 PM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Hi,

That´s a riddle.

Regards Pierre
Hi,

Yes I know that. It's just that I wondered if you could answer the riddle. If you can, please do so.

Regards,

Jeff
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  #30  
Old 09-24-2017, 10:41 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
If someone has experienced A, someone might do B.

A =

Lose face

Fig. to lose status; to become less respectable.
Be embarrassed or humiliated, especially publicly.
To not maintain your reputation and the respect of others

(http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/lose+face)

B =

1)

"Losing face? The symbolism of facial mutilation

In August 2010, ‘Time’ magazine’s front cover featured a photograph of a young Afghan woman, Bibi Aisha, whose nose had been hacked from her face by her in-laws as punishment for fleeing her abusive marriage.

The world was appalled. At Swansea university, historian Dr Trish Skinner was struck by references to the ‘medieval’ nature of the act. “It got me wondering whether facial mutilation really was a typically ‘medieval’ act, and how we tend to apply this term to modern cases without really considering what separates us from the Middle Ages.”

http://blog.wellcome.ac.uk/2012/11/2...al-mutilation/

2)

"Bodily mutilations, such as nose-cutting, are recorded worldwide from different cultural settings. Hence the custom is not solely an example of “Oriental violence and cruelty” (at times quoted in Orientalist sources from the colonial period). I want to emphasise that I am not arguing from the vantage point of a colonial discourse with its criticism of “degenerate and barbaric” social customs. Instead, this paper deals with the human body as a symbol of society. It is particularly focused on the symbolic significance of nose-cutting and on understanding this violent impulse as a social practice. The underlying notion is that cultural categories, such as “honour” and “shame”, are encoded in body morphology and affect behaviour."

(Honour, Shame, and Bodily Mutilation. Cutting off the Nose among Tribal Societies in Pakistan. Jürgen Wasim Frembgen. Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, Third Series, Vol. 16, No. 3 (Nov., 2006), pp. 243-260)
I agree with this.

Pierre
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