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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Elizabeth Stride

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  #1  
Old 03-30-2015, 01:14 PM
moonbegger moonbegger is offline
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Default Are the press responsible for Stride's inclusion

G'day folks ,

Is it a possibility that the newspapers alone are responsible for Strides inclusion in the C5 . It is their "Double Event" sensational headline that does the intended job of ratcheting up the fear and horror in the local community , in turn selling even more newspapers .
But once we remove the sensational headlines , along with the coincidence of yet another murder , what are we left with ? according to the coroner ..

Quote:
"The appearance of the injury to her throat was not in itself inconsistent with that of a self-inflicted wound. Both Dr. Phillips and Dr. Blackwell have seen self- inflicted wounds more extensive and severe, but those have not usually involved the carotid artery. Had some sharp instrument been found near the right hand of the deceased this case might have had very much the appearance of a determined suicide."
Just the One solitary cut ..

Quote:
"There had been no skilful mutilation as in the cases of Nichols and Chapman, and no unskilful injuries as in the case in Mitre-square - possibly the work of an imitator"
Are we to attribute every coincidence to JTR .. The Double murder in Bucks Row ? The Post office robbery taking place yards from Kate's murder in Mitre Sq ? The GSG ? The countless assaults on women reported in the press with a JTR suspicion attached ? Had the Killer struck an hour after any of these assaults , the headlines would have read " The one that got away " and we would probably be debating that coincidence also .

I think my main points of contention regarding one killer being responsible for the double event would have to be MO , location & desire . We know exactly what the Killer was looking to achieve in light of the total destruction that he created in Mitre Sq ! in a quiet desolate corner where he could hear and almost certainly act upon any interruptions .. Very unlike the Piccadilly Circus kerfuffle that was going on down Berner St . We have Mrs Mortimer , Morris Eagle , Joseph Lave , Lechfords sister , pipeman & Schwartz , not to mention the roomful of club members on the other side of the yard door . Any one of them could have disturbed him at any moment , especially as the noise from the club would have masked any imminent warning sounds he would be relying on to make good his escape .

Along with the unmistakable fact that our murderer most definitely had the ability to put each of his intended victims at total ease in his company , a million miles away from the street squabble the ensued with Liz and her killer .

I think we have a pretty similar media reaction back then as we do today with the recent Michael Brown shooting in the USA .. An entire nation was sold the " Hands up don't shoot " lemon , regardless of the actual facts .. Its all about sales and figures .

Cheers , moonbegger .
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  #2  
Old 03-30-2015, 01:22 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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I'd have said Macnaghten was.
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:37 PM
moonbegger moonbegger is offline
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Quote:
With regard to the double murder which took place on 30th September, there is no doubt but that the man was disturbed by some Jews who drove up to a Club, (close to which the body of Elizabeth Stride was found) and that he then, 'mordum satiatus', went in search of a further victim who he found at Mitre Square.
"No Doubt" ??

Quote:
"No one ever saw the Whitechapel murderer many homicidal maniacs were suspected, but no shadow of proof could be thrown on any one" .
"No one ever saw" ??

He either Knew it all , or nothing at all . Sounds like he was playing the press at their own game

Last edited by moonbegger : 03-30-2015 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:44 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonbegger View Post
"No Doubt" ??



"No one ever saw" ??

He either Knew it all , or nothing at all .

May well be right but the C5 that so many cling to is traceable to his pen.
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Old 03-30-2015, 03:09 PM
Mr Lucky Mr Lucky is offline
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Moon,

There was a 'double event' in the press for all of the autumn of terror murders;-

Nichols - rumour of the woman attacked by her husband who was taken to the London hospital with a cut throat.
Chapman - rumour of the woman murdered behind the Hospital.
Kelly - rumour of the murdered watchman, and a rumour that a woman had been murdered in Jubilee street.
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Old 03-30-2015, 03:11 PM
moonbegger moonbegger is offline
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Yes Gut , but six years on , is it not possible he was still under the influence of ill informed press sensationalism .. The Press wanted this to be a double murder , and that's what it was going to be regardless of facts . ( just to quote one of the more conservative reports from the Times the following day)

Quote:
nor can the deed be set down as the outcome of an ordinary street brawl. Both have unquestionably been murders deliberately planned, and carried out by the hand of some one who has been no novice to the work. It was early yesterday morning that the bodies of the two women were discovered, at places within a quarter of an hour's walk of one another, and at intervals of somewhat less than an hour

Last edited by moonbegger : 03-30-2015 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 03-30-2015, 05:05 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonbegger View Post
Yes Gut , but six years on , is it not possible he was still under the influence of ill informed press sensationalism .. The Press wanted this to be a double murder , and that's what it was going to be regardless of facts . ( just to quote one of the more conservative reports from the Times the following day)
G'day moonbegger

But if that be so why did he exclude others that the press were keen to include in the tally?
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Old 03-30-2015, 06:37 PM
moonbegger moonbegger is offline
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My guess is , Tabram's apparent bayonet wounds and lack of mutilation , had enough dissuading elements attached to it , to be less of a certainty for him , where as Polly , Kate , Annie , Mary were butchered . ( in Polly's case the general consensus was that the fiend was disturbed ) . All the other murders took place after McNaughton's prime suspects were out of the game . Basically he is saying , it was one of these suspects without question ! or maybe all three ! But here is the thing , regarding Liz Stride , why does she become such a definite victim of JTR , does he know something hidden in the files , or is he simply assuming that it is too great a coincidence for a woman to be murdered in such close time and proximity to an accepted JTR murder . Even though there are many more reasons to discount her than there are to accept her in the C5 . And once again I find the fact that the press threw her into the equation without question a significant moment .
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Old 03-30-2015, 06:51 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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But it seems the press, and indeed at least some of the police threw Martha in with the same gay abandon, and for that matter had little if any reservation about Emma and Ada.
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Old 03-30-2015, 06:53 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Though I do wonder if Mac would have dismissed the others so readily if his prime suspect was still alive at the time of their deaths.
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