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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #1  
Old 06-22-2017, 01:40 PM
RareEarther RareEarther is offline
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Default It was Lechmere.

I made my case to assist the prosecution in the previous thread.

***********
Scott Nelson
02-23-2008, 02:21 AM
It's a pity that Michael Conner didn't once mention the name of Derek Osborne in any of his three Ripperologist articles on Cross/Lechmere (No. 72 Oct. 2006; no. 78 April 2007, or last month's no. 87).

It was Osborne who first posited that Charles Cross was none other than Charles Lechmere (see Ripperana, no. 37, July 2001, p. 12-17

***********
It was Michael Connor who wrote 2 articles in 2006 that brought attention to him.
Later, others elaborated and a television program gave a convincing case that it was Lech.

Hot & cold wars ever since.

Regardless, I am rational.
It was Lechmere.
Convince me otherwise.

Last edited by RareEarther : 06-22-2017 at 01:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:02 PM
Rainbow Rainbow is offline
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I personaly can't.

Think about it, a man had been spoted near a freshly killed, still bleading woman, whom still had some movement in her chest ( Paul had thought she still breathing ) , he didn't let Paul touch the woman, this man later gave a different name, a false statement to a policeman, most of the crimes happened in his rote to work, he knew the roads and police movements because he always goes at this time, he was even late to his work that night, and Paul was in a hurry to work when he spoted him, Lechmere is a local carman who transports meats and it is normal to him to have blood on his clothes... and furthermore, any other killer couldn't be identified till today

If he wasn't, then I think those woman had committed suicide!


Rainbow°
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  #3  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:03 PM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RareEarther View Post
I made my case to assist the prosecution in the previous thread.

***********
Scott Nelson
02-23-2008, 02:21 AM
It's a pity that Michael Conner didn't once mention the name of Derek Osborne in any of his three Ripperologist articles on Cross/Lechmere (No. 72 Oct. 2006; no. 78 April 2007, or last month's no. 87).

It was Osborne who first posited that Charles Cross was none other than Charles Lechmere (see Ripperana, no. 37, July 2001, p. 12-17

***********
It was Michael Connor who wrote 2 articles in 2006 that brought attention to him.
Later, others elaborated and a television program gave a convincing case that it was Lech.

Hot & cold wars ever since.

Regardless, I am rational.
It was Lechmere.
Convince me otherwise.
Allo, there. I'm not sure if it really works like that. If you're absolutely convinced of any one suspect, then it's down to you to prove it, not for someone to disprove it. I'm guessing that the amount of evidence for Lech is as lacking as most other suspects, hence why we're no closer to solving the mystery.

Personally, while I enjoyed the documentary on Lech, I didn't find it all that convincing, any more so than any other suspect. I do find his involvement in the Nichols case interesting, but purely because he was actually there as a witness to the "post-crime" scene.

I've lurked here for a long time and have read a lot of the Lech threads, and while I appreciate the effort being put into it, I think that a lot of the effort is forced, as it is with other suspects whom people choose to favour for one reason or another.

The problem is, when you have a suspect and you've written your piece about him and are selling it online, you're going to keep up that train of thought even when the tracks are hitting dead-ends and the routes don't make any sense.
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  #4  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:06 PM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow View Post
I personaly can't.

Think about it, a man had been spoted near a freshly killed, still bleading woman, whom still had some movement in her chest ( Paul had thought she still breathing ) , he didn't let Paul touch the woman, this man later gave a different name, a false statement to a policeman, most of the crimes happened in his rote to work, he knew the roads and police movements because he always goes at this time, he was even late to his work that night, and Paul was in a hurry to work when he spoted him, Lechmere is a local carman who transports meats and it is normal to him to have blood on his clothes... and furthermore, any other killer couldn't be identified till today

If he wasn't, then I think those woman had committed suicide!


Rainbow°
When you put it like that, it certainly seems convincing, but under closer scrutiny it isn't as solid as it is when you put it in bullet-points.
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  #5  
Old 06-22-2017, 11:06 PM
drstrange169 drstrange169 is offline
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>>Think about it, a man had been spoted near a freshly killed, still bleading woman...<<

If true it is exceedingly strange that neither man got any blood on themselves or saw blood exiting Mrs. Nichols body.


>> ... he didn't let Paul touch the woman ..<<

Really? Could you show where either man claimed that to be the case?


>> ... this man later gave a different name ... <<

A fact now firmly established to be common in court cases and in thiose cases, not associated with guilt of any kind.


>> ... a false statement to a policeman ...<<

Some with an agenda have alleged a false statement was made. To date nobody has shown it to be a fact.


>> ... most of the crimes happened in his rote to work ..<<


To make this claim, the exact part of Broad Street Station that Xmere walked to, needs to be known, to date nobody has found that information. There were possibly as many eight entrances to Broad Street Station, most would require Xmere to detour from his route to pass by some murder sites.


>>... he knew the roads and police movements because he always goes at this time ...<<


Do you know the police movements on your route to work? I certainly don't and I suspect I'm not alone in that. In fact, the whole point of Sgt. Kirby checking on Neil and others was random inspections.


>> ... he was even late to his work that night ...<<

He says he arrived at work at four o'clock. What was his start time?


>> ... Lechmere is a local carman who transports meats ...<<

That has been speculated by some who have an agenda, but is there any factual evidence that Xmere's job involved meat delivery?


>>... and it is normal to him to have blood on his clothes... <<


Again this is simply something that has been made up without any factual basis.


And this in a nutshell sums up the case against Charles Allen Lechmere, stories, guesses and innuendo presented as facts.

He may or may not be the killer, but nothing in your post is credible evidence against him and there's the rub.
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"Whenever an expert says something that bolsters the Lechmere theory, it is not my task to disprove him ..."
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  #6  
Old 06-22-2017, 11:24 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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I'll take it a step further.

My dad was a carrier for nearly 60 years.

At times meat was one of the things he carted, most he ever got was a slight pink stain.

Most meat carcasses were (yep even back in 1888), delivered wrapped in cloth. Do you know why??? Because the cloth would be soaked in water keeping the meat cool and fresh.

No evidence what routes he took to work, or even that he took more than one.

No evidence that he carted meat.

No evidence that he would regularly be blood stained.

The evidence there is in the "Mizen Scam" supports Cross' version more than Mizen's.

I know I keep harping on about evidence, I also know that Cross/mere isn't the only witness that this total lack of evidence applies to.

I can find evidence that certain persons were suspected by one or more police officer, but yet to find any evidence that any of them was Jack.
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G U T

There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.
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  #7  
Old 06-23-2017, 12:30 AM
Rainbow Rainbow is offline
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Evidences ?!

Who talked about evidences here ?!

It is about logic... a man had been spoted near a freshly killed, still bleeding, who still have some movements in her cheast...

You want to add another player to the scene, a phantom killer, to make them Three!

Three men at 3:40 am at the same spot while the poor woman suffer her death...

Its behind all the logic in the world, as Rareearther said, I can see it , you can't.. it is realy simple as this...

You want to send us to a world of fantasy, were the killers have wings , they can fly in the sky and jump 20 meters ... a world full of those suspects whom we even don't know were did they live in 1888, or maybe you want us to pick an ill man from an asylum , who eat from garbage... to make him the most cleaver searial killer in the world, or a poor teacher who committed sucide, make him a doctor and throw every thing on his shoulders..

You want evidences, then look for it, I have found mine!

Rainbow°
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  #8  
Old 06-23-2017, 01:05 AM
drstrange169 drstrange169 is offline
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>>Evidences ?! Who talked about evidences here ?!<<

I believe it was Gut and I, we're funny that way. No more to be said.
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"Whenever an expert says something that bolsters the Lechmere theory, it is not my task to disprove him ..."
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  #9  
Old 06-23-2017, 04:17 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Quote:
It was Lechmere.
Oh no, it wasn't.
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  #10  
Old 06-23-2017, 04:39 AM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow View Post
Evidences ?!

Who talked about evidences here ?!

It is about logic... a man had been spoted near a freshly killed, still bleeding, who still have some movements in her cheast...

You want to add another player to the scene, a phantom killer, to make them Three!

Three men at 3:40 am at the same spot while the poor woman suffer her death...

Its behind all the logic in the world, as Rareearther said, I can see it , you can't.. it is realy simple as this...

You want to send us to a world of fantasy, were the killers have wings , they can fly in the sky and jump 20 meters ... a world full of those suspects whom we even don't know were did they live in 1888, or maybe you want us to pick an ill man from an asylum , who eat from garbage... to make him the most cleaver searial killer in the world, or a poor teacher who committed sucide, make him a doctor and throw every thing on his shoulders..

You want evidences, then look for it, I have found mine!

Rainbow°
There's no actual evidence to suggest there was any life still in Nichols, nor is there any evidence to properly determine her actual time of death. It's like you just keep posting the same nonsense for the sake of it.
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