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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Deeming, Frederick

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  #1  
Old 02-26-2014, 04:40 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Default DEEMING = DRUIN or DREWEN

G'day

I have a real interest in Frederick Deeming.

NO I do not for one second think that he was Jack the Ripper.

In 1959 Dan Farson states that he was contacted by a Mr Knowles in Australia, telling him about a pamphlet entitled "The East End Murderer -- I knew him." by Lionel Druitt, Drewett or Drewery. I guess most of us are familiar with this story. Unfortunately the letter from Mr Knowles was lost so we don't know if it actaully said "Lionel" if so that is of itself interesting, because Montague's cousin Lionel lived in Dandanong, Wagga and Tasmania.

We are also familiar with Dan Farson's research into this document and the conclusion he reached which in essence was that it was about Deeming who Dan said had been known, at one time as Druin or Drewen shortly after arriving in Australia in 1891. Now one can understand a mistake between Druitt and Druin or Drewen.

Now this all, together with an interest in Deeming that stems from other issues, lead me to read every newspaper report, and Court document that I can find in relation to him. My first question was did he ever adopt an alias such as Druin or Drewen?

I managed to establish that he certainly used many aliases. A report in 1892, says that Deeming told Dr Springthorpe, a psychiatrist assessing him
for an insanity plea that he had used about fourteen aliases.

The closest I can find is a hard to find report that soon after his arrival in Melbourne he used an alias "DRONIN", but can it easlily be mistaken for Druitt, Druin or Drewen?

I have found for anyone interested the following other aliases he adopted:

FREDERICK DEEMING
HARRY LAWSON
ALBERT WILLIAMS
BARON SWANSTON or SWANSON
FREDERICK BAYLEY
JOHN TAYLOR
LORD HARRY DUNN
WARD
WILSON
LEVEY
DRONIN


I would love to hear any comments on the similarity ot otherwise between Dronin and Druitt as well as if anyone knows of any other aliases Frederick Deeming may have used.
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2014, 10:29 PM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
G'day

I have a real interest in Frederick Deeming.

NO I do not for one second think that he was Jack the Ripper.

In 1959 Dan Farson states that he was contacted by a Mr Knowles in Australia, telling him about a pamphlet entitled "The East End Murderer -- I knew him." by Lionel Druitt, Drewett or Drewery. I guess most of us are familiar with this story. Unfortunately the letter from Mr Knowles was lost so we don't know if it actaully said "Lionel" if so that is of itself interesting, because Montague's cousin Lionel lived in Dandanong, Wagga and Tasmania.

We are also familiar with Dan Farson's research into this document and the conclusion he reached which in essence was that it was about Deeming who Dan said had been known, at one time as Druin or Drewen shortly after arriving in Australia in 1891. Now one can understand a mistake between Druitt and Druin or Drewen.

Now this all, together with an interest in Deeming that stems from other issues, lead me to read every newspaper report, and Court document that I can find in relation to him. My first question was did he ever adopt an alias such as Druin or Drewen?

I managed to establish that he certainly used many aliases. A report in 1892, says that Deeming told Dr Springthorpe, a psychiatrist assessing him
for an insanity plea that he had used about fourteen aliases.

The closest I can find is a hard to find report that soon after his arrival in Melbourne he used an alias "DRONIN", but can it easlily be mistaken for Druitt, Druin or Drewen?

I have found for anyone interested the following other aliases he adopted:

FREDERICK DEEMING
HARRY LAWSON
ALBERT WILLIAMS
BARON SWANSTON or SWANSON
FREDERICK BAYLEY
JOHN TAYLOR
LORD HARRY DUNN
WARD
WILSON
LEVEY
DRONIN


I would love to hear any comments on the similarity ot otherwise between Dronin and Druitt as well as if anyone knows of any other aliases Frederick Deeming may have used.
Hi Gut,

I wrote an early essay in the journal "Medicine, Science" and the Law" called, "The Original Suspect" regarding what the probable theory (as I thought of it) was for Deeming as "Jack the Ripper", suggesting that he was (at best connected with the "Double header" murders of September 30, 1888.
But I also added that when one put the information regarding Deeming together it was not a very strong theory.

I had noticed that he used the names "Dronin" and "Drewen" as alias, as well as "Baron Swanston". It is curious (since the two "D" names, especially "Drewen" remind one of "Druitt", but they don't really add up to much on their own. I never found anything suggesting Deeming knew Druitt or passed through Wimborne at any time (not that I found anything that he did not either). At least one of the aliases suggests a dark joke ("Lord Harry Dunn" suggesting he is a con-man because of the name "Dunn").

Still I am curious about what you have been finding about Deeming. Are you planning on writing it up?
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  #3  
Old 03-10-2014, 12:29 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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G'day Mayerling

Can you point me to any source for the Drewen, that's the one I can't find in any records in either Australia or the UK.

I am thinking of writing something up when I get the time.


As I sad I do not think that he was the ripper, indeed his Australia Lawyer stated that Deeming was in prison in South Africa during Autumn 1888.

Thanks for the reply.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:47 AM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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Morning Gut.

I will try to find a copy of the essay to see what I have. There are problems with the itinerary of Frederick Deeming in 1888, and he was in England on certain dates but not on others. I will get back to you whenI have found the essay.

Jeff
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:52 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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Thanks Jeff
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:14 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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I should add that as far as I can find Deeming only used the name Dronin for a short period when he first arrived in Melbourne.
__________________
G U T

There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

Last edited by GUT : 03-10-2014 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:01 AM
Rosella Rosella is offline
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I have 'The Scarlet Thread' by Maurice Gurvich and Christopher Wray, the story of Deeming's life in Australia in 1892.

Deeming rented a cottage in Andrew St Windsor soon after arrival in Melbourne. After paying the first week's rent to John Stamford, the owner, Deeming paid four weeks rent to Charles Connop, Stamford's agent. The name recorded in Connop's rent receipt book is 'Drewn'. In some newspaper reports it is written as Drouin.

However the police recorded the name Drewn and it is also shown on court records. At the Inquest on Emily Mather in Melbourne in April 1892 Stamford and Connop both identified Deeming as Drewn.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:41 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post

The closest I can find is a hard to find report that soon after his arrival in Melbourne he used an alias "DRONIN", but can it easlily be mistaken for Druitt, Druin or Drewen?

I have found for anyone interested the following other aliases he adopted:

FREDERICK DEEMING
HARRY LAWSON
ALBERT WILLIAMS
BARON SWANSTON or SWANSON
FREDERICK BAYLEY
JOHN TAYLOR
LORD HARRY DUNN
WARD
WILSON
LEVEY
DRONIN
I've found a few more names he used:

Mollett [in Rockhampton]
George ??? [on Jumna travelling to Sydney]
Duncan [at Cathedral Hotel Melbourne]


Regardless he was an interesting character.
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There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:42 PM
Chris Chris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
In 1959 Dan Farson states that he was contacted by a Mr Knowles in Australia, telling him about a pamphlet entitled "The East End Murderer -- I knew him." by Lionel Druitt, Drewett or Drewery. I guess most of us are familiar with this story. Unfortunately the letter from Mr Knowles was lost so we don't know if it actaully said "Lionel" if so that is of itself interesting, because Montague's cousin Lionel lived in Dandanong, Wagga and Tasmania.

We are also familiar with Dan Farson's research into this document and the conclusion he reached which in essence was that it was about Deeming who Dan said had been known, at one time as Druin or Drewen shortly after arriving in Australia in 1891. Now one can understand a mistake between Druitt and Druin or Drewen.
Forgive me for nit-picking, but Farson seems to have been under the impression that the mysterious Mr Knowles wrote from England. And I think he remained convinced that Knowles's letter had referred to Druitt. The "Drewen" explanation came from Howells and Skinner, in "Ripper Legacy".

John Ruffels and I did our best to make sense of the evidence in an article entitled "Dandenong Revisited" in Ripperologist 127. I still feel the likeliest explanation is simply that Farson's notes referred to "Deeming" and that he misread them as "Drewery".
http://www.ripperologist.biz/backissues/121-139.zip
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:57 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Forgive me for nit-picking, but Farson seems to have been under the impression that the mysterious Mr Knowles wrote from England. And I think he remained convinced that Knowles's letter had referred to Druitt. The "Drewen" explanation came from Howells and Skinner, in "Ripper Legacy".

John Ruffels and I did our best to make sense of the evidence in an article entitled "Dandenong Revisited" in Ripperologist 127. I still feel the likeliest explanation is simply that Farson's notes referred to "Deeming" and that he misread them as "Drewery".
http://www.ripperologist.biz/backissues/121-139.zip
Thanks Chris, I had read your article and found it most informative.

What I hace a little trouble with is reconciling "I still feel the likeliest explanation is simply that Farson's notes referred to "Deeming" and that he misread them as "Drewery"." with "And I think he remained convinced that Knowles's letter had referred to Druitt.".

But perhaps I am misunderstanding you.
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There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.
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