Francis Thompson and the Jack the Ripper Pattern Murder.

[GUT]

It took me a couple of hours but I finally found an Australian criminal with a VP, at least a VP in the logo of his church affiliation. Of course, it's an American church.

Aussies seem to be different geo-politically (that's geographically and geometrically!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Michael_Rohan

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean.

A "VP"?

And how so geo-politically different?

Yes Aussies are different, but not sure what you are saying.

I know I'm thick.

[MayBea]

VP - Vesica Pisces or Piscis

I know now you aren't fish heads or "almond" heads. By rights, I thought I should have found some easily, just to prove my point. Hard to explain...

Anyway, you're more 'square-heads'. You know what I mean!

[GUT]

VP - Vesica Pisces or Piscis

I know now you aren't fish heads or "almond" heads. By rights, I thought I should have found some easily, just to prove my point. Hard to explain...

Anyway, you're more 'square-heads'. You know what I mean!

Thanks for the VP clarification.

But Square heads? Now I am confused

[MayBea]

[GUT]

Ahh Neddy.

[Mayerling]

Ahh Neddy.

Ah, Sidney Nolan!!

Jeff

[MrBarnett]

Whitechapel was an area normally covered by H Division police. PC Mizen was from H division, but because of the dock fire both PC Neil & PC Thain were called in from Bethnal Green's J Division. The routes patrolled by PC Neil and PC Thain were unfamiliar to them. Even PC Mizen might have been switched from his regular beat that night.

Richard,

I think you'll find Buck's Row was in J division. Police divisions and parishes/boroughs did not always coincide. Thain and Neil were patrolling in their usual divisional area. By the time Lechmere and Paul encountered Mizen they had moved into H division territory.

Gary.

[Richard Patterson]

Richard,

I think you'll find Buck's Row was in J division. Police divisions and parishes/boroughs did not always coincide. Thain and Neil were patrolling in their usual divisional area. By the time Lechmere and Paul encountered Mizen they had moved into H division territory.

Gary.

Thank you for the correction. I made a mistake. Buck's Row was on the edge of J Division but definitely within its boundaries. PC Thain and PC Neil were probably patrolling their regular beats. This lessons the impact of the dock fire as I had described it.

[MrBarnett]

Richard,

Had it crossed your mind that Thompson might have started the dock fire to create a diversion?

Gary.

[Richard Patterson]

Richard,

Had it crossed your mind that Thompson might have started the dock fire to create a diversion?

Gary.

Yes and because he knew how to, and might have been there, I think it is possible. Thompson had a habit of setting fire to buildings. The occasions he did so is recorded in many biographies on Thompson. One 1988 biography, ‘Between Heaven and Charing Cross’ by Bridget M Boardman will tell you on page 20 that Thompson twice set a church on fire. The first time, as an altar boy, he did so by stealing the candle lighters job and starting a blaze at the church altar. Yet again, because of an argument on what robes he wanted to wear, he spun the incense-burning thurible over his head, round and round with such force that he again set the church alight. He got into the local newspaper for that arson attack describing how he sent the crowd into a ‘general panic’ Again he would start a fire by kicking over a lamp in a room he was lodging in. He fled the burning house leaving his landlady sleeping inside. When asked why he did not awake her and left her to burn to death his response was, ‘A house on fire is no place for tarrying.’ He would also start a fire in his editor’s house by leaving his smoking pipe lit in the pocket of his coat which he had left hanging on a hook. Thompson was involved in an anti-Catholic right in his home to of Ashton, just outside of Manchester. He was just a child of almost nine when rioters burnt down the Catholic church that his family attended. At least one source states he was residing in the West India Docks for some of his homeless years.

Thompson held an interest in military strategy. His schoolboy military interests earned him the class honouree title of 'L'homme militaire', which in French meant 'Our Soldier'. Despite Thompson's academic achievements, he was whipped for absence from class. He had lost track of time, becoming entranced by a retired sergeant's confessions of the ordeals of the Indian Mutiny, in 1857 and the massacre of the British garrison at Cawnpore. It was on July 30 1878, during the Russian-Turkish war, that the Russians attacked the Turkish town of Plevna. Thompson, then aged nineteen, was a keen follower of the battle. Using planks of wood and chairs Thompson built a replica of the beleaguered city and recreated the siege. Thompson joined the army in 1885. The poet signed up in Manchester, had his uniform fitted, equipment such as bayonet acquisitioned. This sword was attached to rifles so that combatants could stab their enemies to death when fighting at close range. Thompson was discharged a month later for failing at drill. It is not known whether he returned the bayonet.

[MayBea]

Coincidentally, the example I gave above (previous page), Denis Michael Rohan, set fire to the pulpit of the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem.

Although the leader of the World Wide Church of God claimed his only affiliation was as a correspondent student, the church had a Vesica incorporated into the globe logo as longitude lines.

[Ausgirl]

Hi Gut,
Is it necessary to be so rude? It's one thing to make an enquiry if one is interested enough, but quite another to be openly hostile. I, myself, have brought this subject up to Richard, politely.
My mother always taught me that if you have nothing polite to say, say nothing at all :-)

Amanda

Speaking for myself only, I am frustrated with Richard's habit of presenting his own suppositions as fact, which been he's pulled up on repeatedly, and yet he blithely continues to do. It's frustrating because, while I think Thompson is a good suspect to explore, I can't trust Richard's posts as factual content, nor him as a researcher, seeing as he's so desperate to prove his case that facts take a back seat to his own (sometimes less than believable) theories about what makes Thompson a good suspect.

In short, Thompson is a credible suspect.
Richard makes of himself a not-so credible researcher.

But we're all ignorant, we who don't dote on his every word. I doubt anything anyone has to say that isn't glowing approval matters too much.

Thus, tempers grow short. If this suspect was less credible, it would probably irk less.

If Richard wants to cry about people not posting in his threads, and those who do being "negative", perhaps he could avoid acting like a supercilious ass toward those whose opinions he is here to seek. Oh yes, and conflating fact and theory, as well.

[Richard Patterson]

Speaking for myself only, I am frustrated with Richard's habit of presenting his own suppositions as fact, which been he's pulled up on repeatedly, and yet he blithely continues to do. It's frustrating because, while I think Thompson is a good suspect to explore, I can't trust Richard's posts as factual content, nor him as a researcher, seeing as he's so desperate to prove his case that facts take a back seat to his own (sometimes less than believable) theories about what makes Thompson a good suspect.

In short, Thompson is a credible suspect.
Richard makes of himself a not-so credible researcher.

But we're all ignorant, we who don't dote on his every word. I doubt anything anyone has to say that isn't glowing approval matters too much.

Thus, tempers grow short. If this suspect was less credible, it would probably irk less.

If Richard wants to cry about people not posting in his threads, and those who do being "negative", perhaps he could avoid acting like a supercilious ass toward those whose opinions he is here to seek. Oh yes, and conflating fact and theory, as well.

If my suspect was the Ripper then my creditability is secondary. If he were the Ripper then everything would point to him. You once asked me if I found a bit of info that contradicted my theory, would I include it, or push it under the nearest bit of furniture with the toe of my shoe and hope nobody notices. The answer is I don’t know, it has never happened yet. I’ve been researching Thompson for the murders for almost twenty years. I’ve traveled the world on it, gathering material and writing a book on it. If I were concerned about whether I appeared credible I would never have told anyone about Thompson. And you, for example, would never even had thought he might be the poet friend of Mary Kelly as described by Mr. Hopkins’s. But that's all just my opinion and Casebook has too many of those already. The only superstition that I know is a fact is that Thompson was the Ripper, because all the 'conflated' facts point to it

[Bridewell]

The only superstition that I know is a fact is that Thompson was the Ripper, because all the 'conflated' facts point to it

If there are indeed 'facts' which point to this man being the Whitechapel Murderer can you stick to posting those, which would be of genuine interest, rather than literary excerpts and perceived geographical patterns to the murder sites which can only serve to dilute their impact.

[MayBea]

Speaking for myself only, I am frustrated with Richard's habit of presenting his own suppositions as fact, which been he's pulled up on repeatedly, and yet he blithely continues to do.

It's apparent to me that Ripper authors will tend to get tired of putting words like "allegedly", "possibly", "supposedly", "probably", "could be" or "might be" before all of their innumerable sentences of supposition.

Obviously, the images helped when it came down to the semantics of symbolic interpretations. I've actually changed my idea of the direction of the Ripper's targeted movements away from the fish arc and curve to a straight line trajectory based on this thread.

Personally, I think the geometry is the most compelling aspect of the Thompson case, especially as the same geometry has already proven to be possibly Ripperology's greatest contribution to "real world" criminal investigation (see Wescott and the Lindbergh Kidnapping Case). If it doesn't impinge on reality, is it real?