April 2014 Murder site pictures

[kensei]

Anyone have any info on the current state of the Martha Tabram site? I know not everyone agrees she was a Ripper victim and that the original building at the site is long gone, but when I was there I found the archway one must walk through and the approach up Gunthorpe Street to get there to have a very rich atmosphere, and in fact Phillip Hutchinson began his tour there. Just past the archway there was a sign on the side of the White Hart pub describing the Ripper case and how suspect Severin Klosowski once lived in the basement of the pub.

[Barnaby]

Nice photos Dave, good job and welcome to casebook.

To anyone put off by the lack of cobblestone, gas lights and 'fog'...Yes the sites have changed of course, it's been a bloody good 125 years since!
However, take a tour at night and you still can get a very good impression of how the locations were during the Victorian era and also grasp the distances between sites giving one a much richer awareness of the geography, paths and last but not least, walk in the steps of ol' Jack

It wasn't my intent in my original post to be disrespectful of the sites, or the photos, or Dave.

My question was simply would I learn/appreciate anything about the case that I couldn't get from this website by visiting the sites today given that things have changed so much. It might seem a trivial question to some but for those of us in the States the trip costs several thousand dollars and one has to justify to significant others why one wants to spend that money to visit a parking garage, etc.

Fortunately, the general consensus is that there still is great value in visiting these sites today and for that I remain excited about a possible trip.

[kensei]

It wasn't my intent in my original post to be disrespectful of the sites, or the photos, or Dave.

My question was simply would I learn/appreciate anything about the case that I couldn't get from this website by visiting the sites today given that things have changed so much. It might seem a trivial question to some but for those of us in the States the trip costs several thousand dollars and one has to justify to significant others why one wants to spend that money to visit a parking garage, etc.

Fortunately, the general consensus is that there still is great value in visiting these sites today and for that I remain excited about a possible trip.

Also fortunate, Barnaby, for those of us in the states who must spend those several thousand dollars (and I've spent years saving up for it in between my trips there), London has many other incredible attractions to justify the cost of the trip even if your main goal is to see the Ripper sites. There are many museums that have free admission, and many other stellar sites with fairly low admissions, as well as just amazing architecture everywhere you look. Needless to say, it's a history lover's dream. But to get the fullest experience out of the Ripper sites I highly reccomend doing what I did and visit more than just the C5 murder sites but include such sites as the Frances Coles murder (Swallow Gardens, not too far from the Stride site) and especially the gravesites. I visited the Nicholls and Eddowes graves which are just yards from each other, and Mary Kelly's which is in another cemetery and is an emotional experience unto itself. Taking in one of the guided Ripper tours as well as one's own personal walking tour is always an enjoyable experience too.

p.s. Don't forget "Mary's Corner," in front of the Ten Bells and across the street from Christchurch, two buildings contemporary to the time that are still there and that Mary would have looked at as she plied her trade. Apart from her grave, that is where I felt her presence the strongest.

[Inspector Reid]

When I was in Durward Street Last time back in December 2013 there was a lot of work going on for Crossrail, not quite sure about how this will affect the look of the site over the next few years when it is all completed.
Got a picture on my phone which I really should upload at some point

[Rusteze]

Kensei mentioned "Mary's Corner". Here it is in the current Google Street View - all of the buildings you can see are contemporary with 1888. As a Londoner born and bred I can confirm that there are still endless examples such as this, even though much has also changed.



Steve

[Lechmere]

It's easy to be blasé about the crime scenes when they are on your doorstep - as it is about the other attractions in London. I would guess that London is one of the most interesting cities to visit in the world.

As for the Ripper sites, although the actual crime scenes have changed, if you want to understand the crimes it is essential to visit. The proximity of the murder scenes, the lines of sight, the widths of the roads the secondary locations - police stations, morgues, courts, witnesses and suspects houses (or more likely the location of their houses), the churches they were baptised and married in, the pubs they drank in, the shops where they bought things, the water fountains where they washed their hands, the graves of the victims and various personalities.

[Monty]

It's easy to be blasé about the crime scenes when they are on your doorstep - as it is about the other attractions in London. I would guess that London is one of the most interesting cities to visit in the world.

As for the Ripper sites, although the actual crime scenes have changed, if you want to understand the crimes it is essential to visit. The proximity of the murder scenes, the lines of sight, the widths of the roads the secondary locations - police stations, morgues, courts, witnesses and suspects houses (or more likely the location of their houses), the churches they were baptised and married in, the pubs they drank in, the shops where they bought things, the water fountains where they washed their hands, the graves of the victims and various personalities.

Absolutely agree with that.

Monty

[Scott Nelson]

And the loos....or water closets, whatever. The Aldgate Pump...

[Lechmere]

'the water fountains where they washed their hands'

Please Scott, I covered Aldgate Pump.
Some of the pubs have the original water closets I think.

[Dave O]

I have an overactive imagination and was seriously creeped out walking to the Nichols site on a Saturday night. I would've quietly turned back if I'd been alone, but John Savage kept prodding me on.

I had read the books and seen the maps, but it didn't hit home how close everything really was until I went there, like Dorset Street and Miller's Court in relation to Itchy Park and Christchurch. It may be laughable, but unexpectedly, because I'm not usually one for churches, I was moved by the proximity.

Dave

[Bridewell]

The Old Castle Street and Castle Alley site - rear of the Wash-house (Alice McKenzie murder) is less knocked about than most:-

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=61&page=314

Apologies for the neck strain needed to view the picture!

[Prot]

I agree with what has been said about the closeness of the sites. I went on a Ripper walk a few years back and it was fascinating, but because of the atmosphere, and the talks, you get caught up in it all as you go along, and don't realise just how close the sites are. I walked all of them in order (nichols to Kelly), in that afternoon and it does open your eyes.

Convinced me even more that our Jack lived in the centre of all these crimes. Something I'm working on a little more for my own theories I'll present in some form one day here.

[Prosector]

For an atmospheric site that hasn't changed much try Breezer's Hill where MJK lived when she first came to Whitechapel.

On the subject of where JTR lived, few serial killers live in the centre of their killing zone - that would make it much too easy for the police to locate them. Mostly (eg Peter Sutcliffe) they live on the edge of their area of operations. The first killing is usually closest to their bolt hole and they venture further afield as they get more confident. I am certain that was the case with JTR - except that MJK's killing was different and was not random like the others.

Prosector

[Wickerman]

The dilemma of course is, which was his first victim?
Millwood (Whites Row)
Wilson (Maidman St. Mile End)
Tabram (George Yard Bldgs)
Nichols (Bucks Row)

[Sally]

For an atmospheric site that hasn't changed much try Breezer's Hill where MJK lived when she first came to Whitechapel.

On the subject of where JTR lived, few serial killers live in the centre of their killing zone - that would make it much too easy for the police to locate them. Mostly (eg Peter Sutcliffe) they live on the edge of their area of operations. The first killing is usually closest to their bolt hole and they venture further afield as they get more confident. I am certain that was the case with JTR - except that MJK's killing was different and was not random like the others.

Prosector

In the centre of this particular killing zone were thousands [literally] of people living transient lives. Even if the Ripper had lived on the doorstep of his murder sites, his chances of being located would've been slim.