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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Annie Chapman

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  #31  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:56 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Shabby Chic.

Think of the fellow who bought a new suite for his daughters wedding, wore it frequently including to her 25th wedding anniversary and youre getting the idea.
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  #32  
Old 01-06-2018, 04:55 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Here's the description of the outfit:

A BODY FOUND IN THE THAMES
The body of a man unknown was recovered from the Thames yesterday off Wapping and conveyed to the Wapping mortuary for identification. The following is the description:- Age about 45; height about 5ft 7in.; dark moustache and side whiskers turning grey, bald at top of head and blind in right eye; dressed in dark tweed jacket and vest, black and white check trousers, white cotton shirt; brown socks and lace boots. Letter "D" tattooed on left arm.


Here's the same man is said to be dressed in a 'shabby genteel manner'

Lloyds List 27th November 1888
FOUND IN THE THAMES
Last evening Mr. Wynne E. Baxter, the coroner for South-east Middlesex held an inquest at the Shadwell Vestry-hall on the body of a man unknown, which was found floating in the Thames off Wapping, on Friday last. Alfred Chapman, a waterman , deposed that on Friday last, at 9.45 p.m., he was in his boat off Hermitage Wharf, when he found the body of the deceased floating in the water. He secured it and took it ashore at the Hermitage Stairs, and handed it over to the police. So far as he knew there were no marks of violence on the body but the deceased had evidently lost the sight of one eye. Stephen Brown, inspector of Thames police stationed at Wapping, deposed that he searched the body, but only found an old pipe and a brass wedding ring. The man was dressed in a shabby genteel manner, and was apparently between 40 and 45 years of age. On the left side of the body there was a "D" tattooed, which the witness supposed meant that the deceased was a deserter from the army, as it used to be the custom to brand deserters in that way. The body had evidently been in the water about two weeks, and was probably that of a man who was seen to throw himself off Lambeth-bridge on Nov 3. The jury returned a verdict of "Found Drowned."


His death certificate says that the man was found in the Thames on the 24th Novemeber 1888 and had been in the water about two weeks; dating his death to around the 10th November, despite the newspaper suggesting he was a man seen jumping on the 3rd.
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  #33  
Old 01-06-2018, 10:07 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. F. Leon View Post
What do they call the current trend of wearing pajamas (including slippers) out in public? This has become very common in my part of town in the past few years.

- CFL
"Casual Friday" run amok???

c.d.
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  #34  
Old 01-06-2018, 02:26 PM
Hunter Hunter is offline
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I noticed that, in lieu of the recent cold weather here in the states, Walmart has suggested that their customers wear two pairs of pajamas while shopping there.
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  #35  
Old 01-07-2018, 09:02 AM
curious curious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
Shabby Chic.

Think of the fellow who bought a new suite for his daughters wedding, wore it frequently including to her 25th wedding anniversary and youre getting the idea.

It's still serviceable and too good to throw away. Why waste money on something new you won't wear more than a time or two?

curious
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  #36  
Old 01-07-2018, 09:06 AM
curious curious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
Here's the description of the outfit:

A BODY FOUND IN THE THAMES
The body of a man unknown was recovered from the Thames yesterday off Wapping and conveyed to the Wapping mortuary for identification. The following is the description:- Age about 45; height about 5ft 7in.; dark moustache and side whiskers turning grey, bald at top of head and blind in right eye; dressed in dark tweed jacket and vest, black and white check trousers, white cotton shirt; brown socks and lace boots. Letter "D" tattooed on left arm.


Here's the same man is said to be dressed in a 'shabby genteel manner'

Lloyds List 27th November 1888
FOUND IN THE THAMES
Last evening Mr. Wynne E. Baxter, the coroner for South-east Middlesex held an inquest at the Shadwell Vestry-hall on the body of a man unknown, which was found floating in the Thames off Wapping, on Friday last. Alfred Chapman, a waterman , deposed that on Friday last, at 9.45 p.m., he was in his boat off Hermitage Wharf, when he found the body of the deceased floating in the water. He secured it and took it ashore at the Hermitage Stairs, and handed it over to the police. So far as he knew there were no marks of violence on the body but the deceased had evidently lost the sight of one eye. Stephen Brown, inspector of Thames police stationed at Wapping, deposed that he searched the body, but only found an old pipe and a brass wedding ring. The man was dressed in a shabby genteel manner, and was apparently between 40 and 45 years of age. On the left side of the body there was a "D" tattooed, which the witness supposed meant that the deceased was a deserter from the army, as it used to be the custom to brand deserters in that way. The body had evidently been in the water about two weeks, and was probably that of a man who was seen to throw himself off Lambeth-bridge on Nov 3. The jury returned a verdict of "Found Drowned."


His death certificate says that the man was found in the Thames on the 24th Novemeber 1888 and had been in the water about two weeks; dating his death to around the 10th November, despite the newspaper suggesting he was a man seen jumping on the 3rd.
Hi, Debs,
Was there any follow-up that put a name to this person?

just,
curious
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  #37  
Old 01-17-2018, 07:23 PM
phantom phantom is offline
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I think Robert Downey Jr. does a good "shabby genteel" in the Sherlock Holmes movies.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...&FORM=HDR SC2
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  #38  
Old 01-18-2018, 05:12 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
Hi, Debs,
Was there any follow-up that put a name to this person?

just,
curious
Hi Curious,
Sadly, I haven't had a chance to follow it up yet to check. There may have been something in the newspapers or maybe a missing person report that matches up.
Debs
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  #39  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:39 AM
ChrisGeorge ChrisGeorge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincenzo View Post
Can someone explain to me 'shabby gentile?'
Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
Think in terms it looks like he was once worth something but has fallen on hard times.
I would agree with GUT's assessment. Yes someone of good birth, for example, who is no longer able to maintain the standards that they were brought up to live. Say they lost their job or the family income through gambling or bad investments.

I think though moreover that it is not only an assessment of where the person is in society but also could be a judgement of the clothes they are wearing: their expensive suit looks shabby, their shoes appear worn down at the heels etc. So the description "shabby genteel" also, I think, particularly when we are talking about eyewitness testimony, is an appraisal of the suspect's appearance.

Cheers

Chris
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  #40  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:56 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
Hi Curious,
Sadly, I haven't had a chance to follow it up yet to check. There may have been something in the newspapers or maybe a missing person report that matches up.
Debs
http://irishgarrisontowns.com/d-for-deserter/

Hi Debs. I found this link which gets into the marking of deserters (cupping), and shows the mechanism used to brand a "D", was abolished in 1879. From another link, I read that the Hue and Cry and Police Gazette would dedicate entire page to descriptions of deserters in early 19th, unsure how long they ran that feature.

Believe that Charles Dickens ' description of shabby-genteel in Sketches By Boz influenced the definition.
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