Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by RedBundy13 2 hours ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by DJA 5 hours ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by harry 6 hours ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by packers stem 7 hours ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Wickerman 7 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Joseph Isaacs - by rjpalmer 7 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - (22 posts)
Non-Fiction: The Mysterious Fred - (14 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Joseph Isaacs - (4 posts)
Casebook Announcements: Katherine Bradshaw Amin (1980-2018) - (1 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Kansas Physician Confirms Howard Report - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Kosminski, Aaron

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #151  
Old 12-19-2017, 04:05 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,096
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Brett View Post

It reminds me of Sergeant Stephen White (MET):

"For five nights we had been watching a certain alley behind the Whitechapel Road. It could only be entered from where we had two men posted in hiding, and persons entering the alley were under observation by the two men."

If the officer had been on special duty in Castle Alley at the end of Whitechapel High Street it could be the certain alley behind Whitechapel Road.

I know White must be treated with caution...
Hi Karsten,

White also went on to say this... At the end of the cul-de-sac, huddled against the wall, there was the body of a woman, and a pool of blood was streaming along the gutter from her body.

Alice McKenzie was not huddled up against a wall and was not found at the end of a cul-de-sac. There was a fixed officer there that night at the entrance of the alley at Whitechapel High Street. That particular entrance to the alley was said to be very narrow and one persons shoulders could barley fit through when walking in. Once in the southern part of the alley several yards, it would have been hard to see much into Whitechapel Road. The only other exit at the Whitechapel Road end was Newcastle Street which had a small passage into Castle Alley at the Three crowns Pub.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 12-20-2017, 04:48 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 328
Default

Thanks Jerry!

...The mystery, however, that baffled the police more than anything was how the murderer and the victim managed to get into the alley under the eyes of the watching police. It was clear that the couple had not been in any of the houses, and they were not known to any of the residents. Therefore they must have passed into the alley from the Whitechapel Road, and the two police officers were positive that in the four hours of their vigil not a soul had entered the alley. White had his own suspicions regarding the truth of this declaration, and his suspicions were shared by Sir Robert Anderson, who afterwards in comparing notes with White, expressed the opinion that the murderer and his victim had entered the close during the temporary absence of the two watching policeman. The men afterwards admitted that they had gone away for not more than a minute. It was a very short absence undoubtedly, but it was long enough to give the murderer time to walk into the alley with his victim...

In June/July 1888 and 1889 there were very cold nights (White´s bitter cold night).

The crime scene, described via White, is a mystery for me. But I would not rule out Castle Alley. I simply do not know.

I´m looking for tiny details which may show that the Police had an ongoing interest in someone who worked in Butchers Row.

Times, 3 April 1889:

Detective Sergeant Pentin had followed a suspicious character who entered 5 Duke Street, and was able to "communicate with" Sagar, who helped him to search the premises and arrest the man.

We also do know that Sagar was on Duty opposite Butchers Row in December 1890.

Who knows, maybe there was a connection between the two officers at the entrance of Castle Alley and Butchers Row in July 1889. If the police were interested in a suspect from Butchers Row over a long period, then, this suspect must have been very important for the police. The dates I mentioned would rule out David Cohen and Jacob Levy as the Butchers Row suspect. (Apart from "Kosminski" I´m also very interested in David Cohen, Jacob Levy, Cox´ suspect and the Butchers Row suspect -Sagar´s suspect-).

But that´s speculation, nothing else than that...

Karsten.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 12-30-2017, 11:19 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
The family I was talking about possibly related to Jacobs mother is Haskiel / Hyman Lisiak / Lewis who married Necha Lachman b 1860 Kolo. Poland.
(sorry It wasnt Lipsich)
in 1891 they were living in 5 Princes place Whitechapel as Hyman and Nelly Lewis and children. One who was name Kasriel (Jacobs fathers name)
Once there were some threads I found very interesting:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=3405
http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...olomon+De+Leuw
https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=25467
http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=25502

And I wonder whether the well-known Scotland Yard detective could have been Anderson:

We found our man. He was engaged in a large way of business in the city of London, was married, had a family, and was generally respected. For some time he had been known as eccentric, and various escapades had caused his friends a good deal of anxiety.

His family knew of the circumstances, knew that he was not only a madman, but a man possessed of considerable surgical knowledge, and with their full consent and the knowledge of the police he was put away in an asylum.

And there is Sagar´s statement: and after a time his friends thought it advisable to have him removed to a private asylum. It reminds me of his friends a good deal of anxiety.

I see in this a realistic chance that Sagar watched Kosminski.

One man created some stir during the last murders under circumstances which I need not say anything about. He is a curious sort of fellow, in business, but not doing much to keep it going. His wife and daughter see to it, and he is out at all hours of the night. He says he is a member of the Vigilance Committee, but I can't answer as to that. No, I won't tell you his name, even if you do want to find out if he is a member or not. This man is out at all hours of the night, and he lets himself in so quietly that his wife does not know at what time he really arrives home. She generally finds him in the shop when she comes down in the morning. He is being watched, but we can't arrest him only on the suspicions we have. We must await further developments."

It is not known that Aaron Kozminki was married.

The author is supposed to be nearly related to her/he lived some time ago with a woman, by whom he has been accused/ reported to the police by a woman who he has been living with and is at present under close surveillance/ he has fallen under the strong suspicion of his near relatives (see post 131)

But I think it is not impossible that Aaron Kozminski lived with a woman (not married) when the Whitechapel murders began in the autumn of 1888. This could have been a widow with an older daughter, possibly related to the Kozminski family. In such a case I can well imagine that this relationship ended after or shortly before the Double Event.

Cox: The murderer was a misogynist, who at some time or another had been wronged by a woman

Such a recent separation could explain the Double Event, the double murder.

On the other hand: was arrested on the strength of information given by his own sister

Quite possible that there were two women by whom he was accused, by his partner ("wife") in October 1888 and by his sister (see 22 November 1888).

I know it is too far- fetched but there are researcher like Pat who are able to find a such woman, a woman, a widow, with a daughter in the right age from the Kozminski family, a woman who ran a shop in Greenfield Street or in another street with tailors and capmaker.

I had always thought that Aaron Kozminski was never in a relationship, that he lived with his sisters or alone. But a short relationship with a woman, probably older than him, might be possible.

Sagar stated: made his way to Australia could imply that his partner (with her daughter) went abroad.

Karsten.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 01-22-2018, 12:28 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 744
Default

On the second page of the notes taken when he was commited in 1891 and after there are general observations. One of these was crossed out but said that Aaron stated that he was under the protection of the Russian Consulate.
Does anyone think there might have been communications with the Consulate?

Pat....
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 01-27-2018, 05:53 PM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 288
Default

Hi Paddy. Yes, I think it is a distinct possibility. We know from Sims that Scotland Yard eventually learned that Druitt lived in Blackheath, that Ostrog was in an asylum in France, and --allegedly--that Kosminski worked in a hospital in Poland. They must have learned the latter 'fact' (?) from somewhere, which raises the possibility that the Yard was in touch with authorities in Russia/Poland. If you've spent much time swimming in the deeper waters of Evans/Skinner's 'Companion,' you'll already be aware that Scotland Yard was in contact with various foreign dignitaries in regards to several minor suspects, so it seems rather obvious they would have been in similar communication in regards to the major ones. Are there important documents in France, Russia, Germany, waiting to be re-discovered? Quite possibly.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:13 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 744
Default

Hi
As it is on Aaron medical notes, it appeared to me that he thought he was unfairly incarcerated. It was then crossed out maybe not relevant to his health?
Yes I agree there could be other records abroad. One I have tried to contact a few times but cant get a reply. If anyone of you is in Northern Poland and can help that would be fantastic?
Pat........................
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 01-31-2018, 04:30 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 328
Default

When Aaron stated "he was under the protection of the Russian Consulate" it could also mean that he thought plain clothes officers did belong to the Russian Consulate.

Sagar: "we watched him carefully"

Cox: "I was on duty in this street for nearly three months... was that the man they were watching had something to do with the crimes. You can imagine that never once did we allow him to quit our sight...My man was evidently of opinion that he might be followed every minute...It is indeed very strange that as soon as this madman was put under observation, the mysterious crimes ceased..."

Swanson: "he was watched by police (City CID) by day & night"

In the case of Swanson we know he spoke about Kosminski.

In 1890/91 Aaron Kozminski was a person of unsound mind. It is possible that he could have thought the Seaside Home ID would have been an operation of the Russian Consulate, no police action.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 01-31-2018, 04:14 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 744
Default

Hi Karsten yes your right. I had not thought of it that way. Also having a mental disorder it could have meant anything.
Pat. .....
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 02-01-2018, 05:22 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 328
Default

Hi Pat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
Also having a mental disorder it could have meant anything
If Aaron Kozminski had something to do with these crimes it would have been possible that he thought observations are a kind of protection. In his mind: What he did it turned out to be right. But now, he had to stop and the plain clothes officers are a kind of a higher power, friends, probably from his home country, people of the Russian Consulat, protecting him from the London police.

Cox: We told them we were factory inspectors looking for (Russian/Polish?) tailors and capmakers who employed boys and girls under age

Maybe people told him about these "factory inspectors" and instead of police officers he considered them as members of the Russian Consulate.

Just thoughts.

Karsten.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 03-02-2018, 10:59 AM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 288
Default

"One of these was crossed out but said that Aaron stated that he was under the protection of the Russian Consulate."

If this was merely a delusion on Kosminski's part, why was it crossed out? Wouldn't the delusion be an important feature of his symptoms?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.