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  #1001  
Old 06-06-2017, 12:39 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=Herlock Sholmes;417145]Hi:

Quote:
Although I still lean heavily toward the idea that the message was written by Jack ( due to the fact that I can see no acceptable reason why he would have taken a piece of cloth away from the scene other than as a 'signpost,') I think that a possible explaination could be that the Ripper was considerably more educated than your average Whitechapel inhabitant. I'm not talking a Prince here or anything like that but maybe someone like Druitt. Not necessarily Druitt himself but someone of his education.
Yes, and Druitt worked as a barrister. If we take Druitt as an example, hypothesizing that he wrote the GSG, we can hypothesize that he wanted to act as a judge instead of a barrister and using that title in the GSG.

Quote:
The spelling of 'juwes' and the double negative could just be an attempt by the killer to appear less educated. Someone would only feel it necessary to hide their level of education if it was noticeably better than everyone else's in the area and they felt that it may give the police a possible clue to his identity.
On the other hand, if Druitt had a reason for communicating with someone he knew and wanted the communication to be clear, he would not intentionally spell the word wrong.

The variation in the sources is the problem and that problem is with the ones who constructed copies of the GSG.

Quote:
Especially if he lived locally. Say a highly educated man who had fallen on hard times. A resentful man who sees immorality everywhere and blames the Jews for the fact he has to live in such a horrible place.
I would really like to understand why a serial killer would kill destitute women if his actual target was Jewish men. Please explain this to me if you can.

Regards, Pierre
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  #1002  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:04 AM
ohrocky ohrocky is offline
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Pierre: I would really like to understand why a serial killer would kill destitute women if his actual target was Jewish men. Please explain this to me if you can.

As a self-proclaimed historian you appear to have over-looked the fact that throughout history, and across many countries, Jews have often been targeted during times of political, religious or economic unrest. From the mass slaughter of the Jews in York in 1190, the anti-Jewish pogroms of the 19thC in the Russian Empire, and of course the Holocaust (amongst others).

Why would you think it unlikely that in the East End of London in the LVP there might be those who would seek to lay blame for the killings (IF the GSG has any connection to the killings) on the Jews?

The author may have been blaming the Jews for other things!

There is absolutely no solid evidence that the GSG was written by the killer, nor that it actually refers to the killings at all. And it is extremely unlikely there ever will be. Therefore trying to reconstruct what was written so that it fits in with your "I think I have found him" is, IMO, a fools errand.
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  #1003  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:54 AM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohrocky View Post
Pierre: I would really like to understand why a serial killer would kill destitute women if his actual target was Jewish men. Please explain this to me if you can.

As a self-proclaimed historian you appear to have over-looked the fact that throughout history, and across many countries, Jews have often been targeted during times of political, religious or economic unrest. From the mass slaughter of the Jews in York in 1190, the anti-Jewish pogroms of the 19thC in the Russian Empire, and of course the Holocaust (amongst others).

Why would you think it unlikely that in the East End of London in the LVP there might be those who would seek to lay blame for the killings (IF the GSG has any connection to the killings) on the Jews?

The author may have been blaming the Jews for other things!

There is absolutely no solid evidence that the GSG was written by the killer, nor that it actually refers to the killings at all. And it is extremely unlikely there ever will be. Therefore trying to reconstruct what was written so that it fits in with your "I think I have found him" is, IMO, a fools errand.
Good post. As you say there is nothing, beyond the proximity of the apron piece, to link the GSG to the killings at all. If you went out in the small hours in central London, even today, and dumped a piece of apron you'd probably find, if you checked in the morning, that there was graffiti somewhere near where you'd dumped it.
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  #1004  
Old 06-07-2017, 01:30 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=ohrocky;417262]
Quote:
Pierre: I would really like to understand why a serial killer would kill destitute women if his actual target was Jewish men. Please explain this to me if you can.

As a self-proclaimed historian you appear to have over-looked the fact that throughout history, and across many countries, Jews have often been targeted during times of political, religious or economic unrest. From the mass slaughter of the Jews in York in 1190, the anti-Jewish pogroms of the 19thC in the Russian Empire, and of course the Holocaust (amongst others).
Hi,

No. The pogroms and later* the Holocaust are not "overlooked". Do you think that the Whitechapel murderer killed destitute women because of those*?

Quote:
Why would you think it unlikely that in the East End of London in the LVP there might be those who would seek to lay blame for the killings (IF the GSG has any connection to the killings) on the Jews?
If you hypothesize that you must hypothesize that

A) an anti Jewish person wrote the GSG and at the same time placed the apron from Eddowes, which he had collected at the murder site, there or

B) an anti Jewish person saw a piece of blood stained apron and thought "Oh, another murder by Jack the Ripper must have taken place" and took up a piece of chalk an wrote the GSG on the wall above it - all with the purpose of blaming the Jews for the killings.

Quote:
The author may have been blaming the Jews for other things!
"May have" is not a good hypothesis if there is no evidence.

Quote:
There is absolutely no solid evidence that the GSG was written by the killer, nor that it actually refers to the killings at all.
But above you said:

"Why would you think it unlikely that in the East End of London in the LVP there might be those who would seek to lay blame for the killings (IF the GSG has any connection to the killings) on the Jews?"

and then of course, a tree might fall in the woods even if you do not hear it.

Cheers, Pierre
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  #1005  
Old 06-07-2017, 02:17 PM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
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Pierre, I would be interested to know how many serial murderers do you think are actually directly targeting the root causes of their hatred and anger.

Aren't the actual victims *always* a proxy for the real target, on some level? If they were not, the killing would not continue.

I have no problem imagining a killer motivated by loathing of his world, a man who hates; hates women, hates prostitutes, hates foreigners, and who vents his loathing on the easiest, weakest targets.
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  #1006  
Old 06-07-2017, 02:30 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Flower View Post
Pierre, I would be interested to know how many serial murderers do you think are actually directly targeting the root causes of their hatred and anger.

Aren't the actual victims *always* a proxy for the real target, on some level? If they were not, the killing would not continue.

I have no problem imagining a killer motivated by loathing of his world, a man who hates; hates women, hates prostitutes, hates foreigners, and who vents his loathing on the easiest, weakest targets.
Hi Henry,

I have encountered something new tonight and I am very tired now.

I think I will have to take a break and find out what to do now. So this will be short.

Yes. The actual victims are a proxy for the real target, they are all representations for the real target.

Best wishes, Pierre
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  #1007  
Old 06-07-2017, 02:51 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Hi Henry,

I have encountered something new tonight and I am very tired now.

I think I will have to take a break and find out what to do now. So this will be short.

Yes. The actual victims are a proxy for the real target, they are all representations for the real target.

Best wishes, Pierre
So more of the old "I've found something new but I'm not telling" that he has been dragging out for the last year.
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  #1008  
Old 06-07-2017, 02:53 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
So more of the old "I've found something new but I'm not telling" that he has been dragging out for the last year.
Oh well he told us one more piece if his mythical data and he'd reveal all.

He claims that he has one more piece of data so now he must reveal all.

Please folk don't hold your breath, I seem to recall hearing multiple times that he has a new source but he has NEVER not once told us anything.
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  #1009  
Old 06-07-2017, 03:28 PM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
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Be reasonable folks - Pierre actually didn't state he had found new evidence, or new sources, he merely said he had 'encountered something new'.

My guess is he's just read some actual history and is slightly traumatized.

Only kidding Pierre. I know you're a real historian. I mean scientist. I mean statistician. I mean sociologist. I mean dilettante.

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  #1010  
Old 06-07-2017, 03:35 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Flower View Post
Be reasonable folks - Pierre actually didn't state he had found new evidence, or new sources, he merely said he had 'encountered something new'.

My guess is he's just read some actual history and is slightly traumatized.

Only kidding Pierre. I know you're a real historian. I mean scientist. I mean statistician. I mean sociologist. I mean dilettante.

👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
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