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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Social Chat > Other Mysteries > A6 Murders

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  #4081  
Old 03-06-2017, 07:13 AM
NickB NickB is offline
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That wording was on the Magee site too. I wonder which is right.

----

I notice that on the Wikipedia page for Hanratty the two familiar misrepresentations of evidence are stated as facts:

1) Mrs D said she “was unsure whether it was Monday 21 or Tuesday 22 August”.

2) Hanratty said he “stayed in a boarding house near the railway station, in the attic room, which had a green bath”.
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  #4082  
Old 03-06-2017, 09:48 AM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
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According to the Times of 9 February 1961, Mrs D said that she was sure that the man requesting directions came in on the Monday and she was sure that her granddaughter was serving at the time.

And the report of 8 February just says;
"Hanratty asked to describe everything he could about the house where he stayed said, the woman who answered the door was about 50, average build and wore glasses. A coat rack in the hall was a big one. He also remembered a green plant in a bowl and a green bath in the attic."

These newspaper reports paraphrase and condense the evidence given and Foot at page 222 gives a more detailed extract of the evidence, which runs as follows:

Q. Was there anything else that you noticed in that house in any other room of the house you went to? Did you notice something?

A There was a green bath.

Q. A green bath?

A. I remember the green bath plainly.

Q. Can you remember whereabouts in the house the green bath was...?

A. In the top part of the house, I would say the attic; in the top part. It might not be the attic, but that is ...

Notwithstanding these answers Foot believes it probable that Hanratty slept in the room with the green bath!
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  #4083  
Old 03-06-2017, 10:20 AM
NickB NickB is offline
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From Telegraph, part of the cross-examination about Rhyl ...
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  #4084  
Old 03-06-2017, 02:36 PM
cobalt cobalt is offline
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We seem to have moved seemlessly from discussion of the murder car, to the old chestnut of Hanratty's alibi.

I think it is generally accepted that Hanratty's alibi is impossible to prove, short of being arrested by the Liverpool/Rhyl poliice, to the satisfaction of those who believe he was guilty. Even the trial udge acknowledged that Hanratty was not obliged to prove a negative.

Let's get back to the car.
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  #4085  
Old 03-06-2017, 03:38 PM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
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According to the Times report of 26 January 1961 of Charlotte France's evidence, it was she who did Jim's Laundry. She knew of him only as Jim Ryan.
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  #4086  
Old 03-07-2017, 02:47 AM
OneRound OneRound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
We seem to have moved seemlessly from discussion of the murder car, to the old chestnut of Hanratty's alibi.

I think it is generally accepted that Hanratty's alibi is impossible to prove, short of being arrested by the Liverpool/Rhyl poliice, to the satisfaction of those who believe he was guilty. Even the trial udge acknowledged that Hanratty was not obliged to prove a negative.

Let's get back to the car.
Hi Cobalt - what the trial judge said was undoubtedly correct although things have somewhat moved on with the jury finding Hanratty guilty and various official enquiries and appeal courts supporting that decision. An alibi for Hanratty or unfairness in the trial process now needs to be clearly established to have any chance of overturning the finding of guilt.

By all means, choose to leave ''the Rhyl alibi'' well alone and request others on both sides do the same. However, if you do that, you must appreciate that ''unfairness in the trial process'' is all that is left open to you and that cut insufficient ice with the Court of Appeal in 2002.

I have no issue with getting back to the car although you may have to take first turn at the wheel and do the steering.

Best regards,

OneRound
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  #4087  
Old 03-07-2017, 06:01 AM
NickB NickB is offline
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Woffinden wrote: “Having committed the crime, and having abandoned the Morris Minor in Redbridge, Alphon returned to the [Vienna] hotel.”

How does he square this with the car being abandoned in the evening?

In Victoria at 4.50pm an old acquaintance Paul Davey had a chance meeting with Alphon (Woffinden page 410) just before he was about to get another top up from his mother at 5.30. Then he checked into the Alexander Court Hotel.
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  #4088  
Old 03-07-2017, 08:22 AM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
Woffinden wrote: “Having committed the crime, and having abandoned the Morris Minor in Redbridge, Alphon returned to the [Vienna] hotel.”

How does he square this with the car being abandoned in the evening?

I don't think he has yet, maybe a new theory will appear in the updated edition of his book upon which he is presently working, although how many editions of a book with "The Final Verdict" in its title one can get away with must surely be limited.
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  #4089  
Old 03-08-2017, 02:30 AM
OneRound OneRound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
I don't think he has yet, maybe a new theory will appear in the updated edition of his book upon which he is presently working, although how many editions of a book with "The Final Verdict" in its title one can get away with must surely be limited.
Ouch!
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  #4090  
Old 03-08-2017, 06:41 AM
Derrick Derrick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
I don't think he has yet, maybe a new theory will appear in the updated edition of his book upon which he is presently working, although how many editions of a book with "The Final Verdict" in its title one can get away with must surely be limited.
Hi Spitto

He may call it the Final Final Verdict!

Dello
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