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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Bury, W.H.

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  #11  
Old 05-08-2016, 05:37 AM
curious4 curious4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggyrand View Post
No one. I don't have a top list.
As for ligature strangulation, there isn't any evidence of it and the way the scenes are described it isn't that likely. The only type of strangulation that might work is blood strangulation and still there should be more signs of struggle. The mutilations are drastically different and for different purposes.
Like I said, Bury is interesting as a discussion topic but the crimes are very different.
Hello Shaggy

What evidence there is (apart from Martha and Annie - swollen face, protuding tongue), points to the victims being choked into insensibility in order to facilitate the throat-cutting. The pointers you suggest apply to strangulations resulting in death.

Best wishes
C4
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  #12  
Old 05-08-2016, 06:24 AM
Shaggyrand Shaggyrand is offline
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Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello Shag. There can be no doubt that both Polly and Annie were strangled. It's in the coroner's report.

Cheers.
LC
Quote:
Originally Posted by curious4 View Post
Hello Shaggy

What evidence there is (apart from Martha and Annie - swollen face, protuding tongue), points to the victims being choked into insensibility in order to facilitate the throat-cutting. The pointers you suggest apply to strangulations resulting in death.

Best wishes
C4
Yes, they were choked. I misremembered and was more thinking about using a ligature. Sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
Who says? That's only your interpretation of a hypothetical scenario based on criminal profiling, which is far from an exact science. Something we're all guilty of at times. Serial killers have been known to deviate from the norm and devolve in their habits when things begin to fall apart.

We know that Bury was living in the East End during the Autumn of Terror, we know that he suddenly left Whitechapel less than two months after the final canonical victim, and more importantly we know that he was a murderer with a propensity for post-mortem abdominal mutilations, a particularly rare trait for a killer. Those are the hard facts. That doesn't make him the Ripper by any means, but on the balance of evidence, what other named suspect compares?
Isn't mischaracterizing the abdominal wounds on Ellen Bury the same kind of mistake? She had only a single cut that was more than superficial and penetrated the abdominal cavity. He might not have done worse to her with all the time available, if he was JtR, but he didn't even come anywhere near what he had done previously. Those wounds don't really seem that comparable to me. Could be wrong, just my take.
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  #13  
Old 05-08-2016, 08:18 AM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
Who says? That's only your interpretation of a hypothetical scenario based on criminal profiling, which is far from an exact science. Something we're all guilty of at times. Serial killers have been known to deviate from the norm and devolve in their habits when things begin to fall apart.

We know that Bury was living in the East End during the Autumn of Terror, we know that he suddenly left Whitechapel less than two months after the final canonical victim, and more importantly we know that he was a murderer with a propensity for post-mortem abdominal mutilations, a particularly rare trait for a killer. Those are the hard facts. That doesn't make him the Ripper by any means, but on the balance of evidence, what other named suspect compares?
Your absolutely right Harry D which is why no one on this thread has remotely satisfactorily explained any of the "coincidences" or named another suspect who these sorts of coincidences apply. All people bleat on about is that Ellen wasn't mutilated to the extent of Mary Jane Kelly. When its worth noting aside from Kelly none of the other suspects are even proven violent murderers.
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  #14  
Old 05-08-2016, 09:51 AM
John G John G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello Shag. There can be no doubt that both Polly and Annie were strangled. It's in the coroner's report.

Cheers.
LC
Hi Lynn,

Yes indeed. In fact, there's an interesting newspaper article which refers to Dr Phillips' opinion on the matter. Apparently, he not only believed that JtR had "considerable surgical knowledge", but also "a man who had studied the theory of strangulation." In fact, on that basis, he apparently concluded that Rose Mylett was a Ripper victim: see http://www.casebook.org/press_report...l?printer=true
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2016, 12:31 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello Shag. Thanks.

Yes, difficult to keep abreast of all the data.

Cheers.
LC
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  #16  
Old 05-08-2016, 12:32 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello John. Thanks.

Perhaps that is why he had misgivings about Kate?

Cheers.
LC
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2016, 12:59 PM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello John. Thanks.

Perhaps that is why he had misgivings about Kate?

Cheers.
LC
Hello Lynn,

Yes, that would make sense.

Great to see you posting again by the way.
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