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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Non-Canonical Victims > Torso Killings

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  #141  
Old Today, 08:23 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
Not to beat this to death, but when Phillips is directly quoted...for Sam ...he said this;

[Coroner] You do not think they could have been lost accidentally in the transit of the body to the mortuary? - I was not present at the transit. I carefully closed up the clothes of the woman. Some portions had been excised"

That to me... doesnt sound like the observations he made were not about the body while still in the yard.
I agree, and thanks for finding a contemporary report of Philips' testimony that confirms this (which the Lancet editorial doesn't).
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  #142  
Old Today, 08:28 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Perhaps you should read on

[Coroner] You do not think they could have been lost accidentally in the transit of the body to the mortuary? -

Phillips - I was not present at the transit. I carefully closed up the clothes of the woman. Some portions had been excised.

If they had been found missing at the scene the above question would not have been asked
And Phillips' response was that he'd closed up her clothing prior to transit, having found that "some portions had been excised". Baxter's question was to clarify this point, and Phillips obliged.
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  #143  
Old Today, 08:33 AM
Batman Batman is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
I have to repeat yet again for clarity. With regards to Chapman, the uterus and its appendages were not found to be missing at the crime scene. There was no such and examination done at the crime scene to determine this.

The same applies to the removal of the organs from Eddowes.
That is a positive claim that you have evidence that the determination wasn't identified where the bodies laid. That hasn't been demonstrated.

The very fact there is blood splatter forensics at Chapman's scene, shows they were undertaking careful notes.

They must do. Removing the body doesn't take all the blood splatter forensics with it.
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  #144  
Old Today, 09:29 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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[quote=Batman;465869]That is a positive claim that you have evidence that the determination wasn't identified where the bodies laid. That hasn't been demonstrated.

I have demonstrated that in a previous post please try to keep up

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  #145  
Old Today, 09:35 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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And Phillips' response was that he'd closed up her clothing prior to transit, having found that "some portions had been excised". Baxter's question was to clarify this point, and Phillips obliged.
Yes the intestines had been excised

If they had been found missing at the crime scene it would have been made clear at the inquest, and there would have been no need for the coroner to ask this question when the evidence was given that the uterus and the fallopian tubes were missing. It is simple logic, which part do you not understand?

If they had been found missing at the scene the above question would not have been asked

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  #146  
Old Today, 10:40 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Yes the intestines had been excised
They had been extruded, but not excised.
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  #147  
Old Today, 11:33 AM
Batman Batman is offline
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[quote=Trevor Marriott;465877]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
That is a positive claim that you have evidence that the determination wasn't identified where the bodies laid. That hasn't been demonstrated.

I have demonstrated that in a previous post please try to keep up

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What post number?
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  #148  
Old Today, 11:54 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Perhaps you should read on

[Coroner] You do not think they could have been lost accidentally in the transit of the body to the mortuary? -

Phillips - I was not present at the transit. I carefully closed up the clothes of the woman. Some portions had been excised.

If they had been found missing at the scene the above question would not have been asked

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
I read that as a request for clarity on the issue Trevor. And the "excisions" Bagster mentions he had noticed prior to "closing up the clothes".

I think the preliminary examination at the crime scene revealed that items had been excised and not yet fully identified, which ones and specifically how much of them, was determined when the pm was done. The Volte Face that was done with Kelly was done so the anatomical integrity of the deceased could be determined, it would be almost impossible to determine which items were absent until all the excised materials were catalogued. There was a lot of biological matter to sort through there.
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  #149  
Old Today, 12:22 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
I read that as a request for clarity on the issue Trevor. And the "excisions" Bagster mentions he had noticed prior to "closing up the clothes".

I think the preliminary examination at the crime scene revealed that items had been excised and not yet fully identified, which ones and specifically how much of them, was determined when the pm was done.
Inspector Chandler and Dr Phillips mention some excised parts at Annie's inquest (from Daily Telegraph 14 Sept);

"A portion of the intestines, still connected with the body, were lying above the right shoulder, with some pieces of skin. There were also some pieces of skin on the left shoulder."

"The small intestines and other portions were lying on the right side of the body on the ground above the right shoulder, but attached. There was a large quantity of blood, with a part of the stomach above the left shoulder"

One piece of abdominal wall was never found, presumed taken by the killer along with the uterus. I doubt they discovered this until the PM though.
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  #150  
Old Today, 03:58 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Inspector Chandler and Dr Phillips mention some excised parts at Annie's inquest (from Daily Telegraph 14 Sept);

"A portion of the intestines, still connected with the body, were lying above the right shoulder, with some pieces of skin. There were also some pieces of skin on the left shoulder."

"The small intestines and other portions were lying on the right side of the body on the ground above the right shoulder, but attached. There was a large quantity of blood, with a part of the stomach above the left shoulder"

One piece of abdominal wall was never found, presumed taken by the killer along with the uterus. I doubt they discovered this until the PM though.
Joshua

Thanks for posting that. No pun intended but its killed this particular issue.

The silence is deafening !

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