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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Thompson, Francis

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  #11  
Old 02-28-2015, 01:24 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Patterson View Post
In 1885 the age of consent was raised to 16. When, in 1900, Thompson wrote about this girl, it was not only uncommon for her to marry, it was a felony. If I were to fall in love with a child, it were a criminal offense to marry, simply because I had felt her hair, then I hope I would see something bad in it.
And you can't love someone without having SEX?

Come back when he says "I so badly wanted to have sex with her" and you might have a point, as I said previously trying to turn relativaly innocent comments into him being JtR hurts your case.

Have you ever said I love a good wine, or whatever your drink of choice might be, did it mean you hoped to marry it.

Have you ever said I live my mates kids especially when they pull faces at me [or whatever].
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2015, 01:45 AM
Richard Patterson Richard Patterson is offline
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And you can't love someone without having SEX?

Come back when he says "I so badly wanted to have sex with her" and you might have a point, as I said previously trying to turn relativaly innocent comments into him being JtR hurts your case.

Have you ever said I love a good wine, or whatever your drink of choice might be, did it mean you hoped to marry it.

Have you ever said I live my mates kids especially when they pull faces at me [or whatever].
I would not say I loved a 13-year-old female I had only just encountered in a tickling game, just because I chanced to feel her hair. You're right though maybe it was just an innocent comment.
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"Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

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  #13  
Old 02-28-2015, 01:50 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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I would not say I loved a 13-year-old female I had only just encountered in a tickling game, just because I chanced to feel her hair. You're right though maybe it was just an innocent comment.
As I've said a few times he's not a bad suspect in some ways, but some of the things you are trying to use to show that actually weaken your case, in my opinion.

But please keep digging.
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  #14  
Old 02-28-2015, 04:36 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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In one of Thompson's essays he outlines the development of humanity as, man, woman, child and doll, with doll the most perfect.

And he confesses to an infatuation with one of his sister's dolls when he was a boy. He describes her as his puppet love and says that even now he has only to hear her name and 'the Past touches me with a rigid agglomeration of small china fingers.'

He is a very interesting character, and I am grateful to Richard for bringing him to my attention. I'd heard of him before and had read The Hound of Heaven, but I had no idea how strange a character he was.

However, as a candidate for JTR, I'm not convinced. To me he comes across as a rather effete individual with a paedo streak whose physical strength had been wrecked by years of opium addiction and living on the streets. I just don't see him as having the desire or the physical strength to overpower and disembowel grown women.
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  #15  
Old 02-28-2015, 05:22 AM
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Nobody would have accepted that these literary folk were so naive as to take it all as art.
This is absolute nonsense.
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  #16  
Old 02-28-2015, 05:34 AM
Ausgirl Ausgirl is offline
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And you can't love someone without having SEX?
Dear gods, and if not a paedo, it must be remembered that the man was a poet. They can crap on for verses about the perfection of a flower, without wanting to stick their willy in it.

I think Thompson was completely disillusioned and disgusted with the world around him, and for all we know this "love" of an innocent child might very well have been expressed in the tradition of chivalry, idealised romance unsullied by notions of sex. Something pure, in a world of filth, which includes the poet himself.

Personally, I think he sounds a bit creepy with it, though. But does it show him to be a killer? Do ANY of his creative works?

Nope. They do not. Because poets write about things they do not have, things they will never really do, things have never seen and will never actually see. It's called "imagery", and all poets, even the ones who try very hard not to, employ it.
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2015, 05:41 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Of course it could have been taken as art, and that's almost certainly what it was.

But if a serial killer were also a poet, I think the chances are that his poems would contain at least obscure references to his crimes. And if the urge to confess was strong enough, he might go further.

Thompson wrote a story about a poet who sacrifices his lover to the gods in exchange for an increase in his poetic abilities.

It's a rather strange tale that a third of the way through switches to a first person confession of the murder of a woman in a dimly lit chamber. The killing takes place at midnight and the victim cries out 'Oh, my god ' at the point of death and opens her eyes. For me it has strong echoes of Millers Court, although some of the detail doesn't quite fit.

Given Thompson's presence in the East End in 1888, I think it's likely this tale was at least influenced by the murder of Mary Kelly.
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  #18  
Old 02-28-2015, 05:43 AM
Richard Patterson Richard Patterson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
In one of Thompson's essays he outlines the development of humanity as, man, woman, child and doll, with doll the most perfect.

And he confesses to an infatuation with one of his sister's dolls when he was a boy. He describes her as his puppet love and says that even now he has only to hear her name and 'the Past touches me with a rigid agglomeration of small china fingers.'

He is a very interesting character, and I am grateful to Richard for bringing him to my attention. I'd heard of him before and had read The Hound of Heaven, but I had no idea how strange a character he was.

However, as a candidate for JTR, I'm not convinced. To me he comes across as a rather effete individual with a paedo streak whose physical strength had been wrecked by years of opium addiction and living on the streets. I just don't see him as having the desire or the physical strength to overpower and disembowel grown women.
These are entirely my own words but I think you're not convinced that Thompson is even a candidate. It's not because he has a history of arson and mutilation, was rejected by a prostitute who vanished from the streets, carried a knife, was likely living in Providence row, had surgical skill, and wrote dreadful things about the very class of women who were killed. It was because he was a girly poet and a pedophile whose arms and legs were thin.
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  #19  
Old 02-28-2015, 06:05 AM
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I have written several poems and short stories involving the concept of dismemberment. Some of the poems are very angry ones indeed, and are directly inspired by an ex-boyfriend.

Recently, a body turned up in my local river, male and cut into pieces.

Should I be a suspect? I do own a meat cleaver and all.
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  #20  
Old 02-28-2015, 06:12 AM
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I -really- hope no-one turns up dead with a beehive stuffed down his throat.
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