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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Thompson, Francis

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  #21  
Old 01-10-2015, 08:15 AM
Hatchett Hatchett is offline
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Hi,

I am not saying that he borrowed a person. I am saying that he borrowed a scene, in fact a very poetic and moving scene that in reality belonged to De Qunicey.

To be a credible suspect there needs to be the link to Whitechapel.

Can you please detail it.

Best wishes.
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2015, 08:58 AM
Richard Patterson Richard Patterson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatchett View Post
Hi,

I am not saying that he borrowed a person. I am saying that he borrowed a scene, in fact a very poetic and moving scene that in reality belonged to De Qunicey.

To be a credible suspect there needs to be the link to Whitechapel.

Can you please detail it.

Best wishes.
Thompson claimed to have had a year long affair with this prostitute, it must be the longest borrowed scene in history. As I have said, Thompson admits to spending nights on Mile End Road. In 1888 this road ended where it met Whitechapel Road. This is about 100 meters from Bucks Row, where the body of Nichols was found. Looks like a link to me.
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  #23  
Old 01-10-2015, 02:58 PM
Ausgirl Ausgirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard Patterson View Post
I can’t place Thompson firmly in Whitechapel. So I cannot give you anything in point form. I can say that during his vagrancy years;
  • He frequented the Guildhall Library – In the East End.
  • He lived in the West India Docks District -In the East End.
  • He walked nights along Mile End Road –In the East End.
  • He slept in homeless shelters, most likely the Salvation Army’s Limehouse shelter – In the East End.

Descriptions of Thompson, on his dressing and living habits come from Thompson’s close associates, and long time friends - people who knew him for many years.
Thank you for clarifying. At least he can be proved to have been in the East End area during the relevant period, which some proposed suspects cannot be.

Playing devil's advocate a moment, and thinking on the poet's propensity to draw inspiration from pretty much anything they percieve as important to them, I have to wonder this, re the more gory of his poems:

Is it possible that he was not the Ripper himself, but merely inspired by the case? The witch babies (awesome concept... wish I'd thought of it..) is actually a thought I've had several times - was a delusional JtR looking for something, inside these women?

The poems could have been the result of a creative process sparked not just by JtR being plastered all over the papers and being talked about so much, but also by Thompson having an intimate knowledge of street life and the kind of women Jack targetted. He would have been right there in the thick of the fear, if he was on the streets in 1888..

Perhaps he simply felt an affinity with JtR, I know I have sublimated some of my own less attractive emotions that way in several of my own works, it's a fairly common thing for poets to do.

Of course, I understand that it's not just the poems that have led you to this theory.
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  #24  
Old 01-10-2015, 04:40 PM
Richard Patterson Richard Patterson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ausgirl View Post
Thank you for clarifying. At least he can be proved to have been in the East End area during the relevant period, which some proposed suspects cannot be.

Playing devil's advocate a moment, and thinking on the poet's propensity to draw inspiration from pretty much anything they percieve as important to them, I have to wonder this, re the more gory of his poems:

Is it possible that he was not the Ripper himself, but merely inspired by the case? The witch babies (awesome concept... wish I'd thought of it..) is actually a thought I've had several times - was a delusional JtR looking for something, inside these women?

The poems could have been the result of a creative process sparked not just by JtR being plastered all over the papers and being talked about so much, but also by Thompson having an intimate knowledge of street life and the kind of women Jack targetted. He would have been right there in the thick of the fear, if he was on the streets in 1888..

Perhaps he simply felt an affinity with JtR, I know I have sublimated some of my own less attractive emotions that way in several of my own works, it's a fairly common thing for poets to do.

Of course, I understand that it's not just the poems that have led you to this theory.
This is a very interesting and thoughtful premise and also one I have entertained on a number of occasions. There are reasons for this. For example, Everard Meynell, in his biography of Thompson, told of the poet’s association with criminals while homeless.

‘…He now began to learn something of his companions, of their slang, of their ways and means…The murderer to whom he makes several allusions, he disguises under the initials D. I…'

I have been curious who this D.I might have been and have wondered if he may have been the ripper instead of my suspect. This D.I, living on the streets, would certainly also have had the opportunity to kill these women. Unfortunately, despite its attractiveness, this other murderer, would have to have had the required weapon, skills in cutting into corpses and organ removal and a clear motive. These are traits which, hard as a l look, always have me return to Francis Thompson – The Perfect Suspect.
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  #25  
Old 02-04-2015, 06:40 PM
Richard Patterson Richard Patterson is offline
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Originally Posted by Hatchett View Post
Hi,

I dont think that there is anything that connects him to Whitechapel, let alone to murder or violence of any kind.

Really, just a sad and talented soul who lost his way.
This connects him to Whitechapel. Here is a map of Whitechapel. It shows where Francis Thompson was living in 1888. It shows his location in relation to where the Ripper's victims where found. The map points to Thompson living less than 100 meters from Mary Kelly. Thompson was lodging in the Catholic refuge in Providence Row, at 50 Crispin Street. This is opposite Dorset Street.
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"Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

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  #26  
Old 02-04-2015, 06:59 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Patterson View Post
This connects him to Whitechapel. Here is a map of Whitechapel. It shows where Francis Thompson was living in 1888. It shows his location in relation to where the Ripper's victims where found. The map points to Thompson living less than 100 meters from Mary Kelly. Thompson was lodging in the Catholic refuge in Providence Row, at 50 Crispin Street. This is opposite Dorset Street.
Sorry Richard you have probably posted this elsewhere but I have previously seen speculation that Thompson may have lived in Providence Row but can you point me to the PROOF that this is so, I have obviously missed that.
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  #27  
Old 02-04-2015, 08:02 PM
Richard Patterson Richard Patterson is offline
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Originally Posted by GUT View Post
Sorry Richard you have probably posted this elsewhere but I have previously seen speculation that Thompson may have lived in Providence Row but can you point me to the PROOF that this is so, I have obviously missed that.
John Evangelist Walsh wrote in 1967 biography on Thompson, “Strange Harp, Strange Symphony the Life of Francis Thompson,” that Thompson was staying in Providence Row. Walsh is one of the foremost experts on Thompson with access to personal notes, archives, unpublished letters, and private notebooks. Walsh’s sources were copious and trusted. Most of the Preface to his book is devoted to thanking the people and organizations that gave him access to personal papers and related documents. He also interviewed people who knew Thompson. The circumstances of Thompson’s homelessness and the events surrounding it would hardly have been treated lightly. Providence Row was run expressively for Catholics with limited beds. It is more than likely that Thompson sought refuge with people of his faith. Such things as him being a newly published poet and writer in a respectable Catholic magazine, him being an ex-seminary student, and connections he had to priests in London, who were friends of the family, would have guaranteed entry to Providence Row. A place where Thompson would have felt protected. I myself have been to Boston College to the Burns library that holds many of Thompson’s notes and letters. It was there that I attained information that he would walk nights on Mile End Road in the East End. The Providence Row information from Walsh comes from Thompson’s manuscript, “Catholics in Darkest England”. This was an essay, using the Salvation Army’s shelters as an example foe why Catholics should follow suit, providing more shelters for Catholic vagrants.
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"Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

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  #28  
Old 02-04-2015, 08:08 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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G'day Richard

But earlier you posted

Quote:
I can’t place Thompson firmly in Whitechapel. So I cannot give you anything in point form. I can say that during his vagrancy years;

He frequented the Guildhall Library – In the East End.
He lived in the West India Docks District -In the East End.
He walked nights along Mile End Road –In the East End.
He slept in homeless shelters, most likely the Salvation Army’s Limehouse shelter – In the East End.


Descriptions of Thompson, on his dressing and living habits come from Thompson’s close associates, and long time friends - people who knew him for many years.
Perhaps you can see why I am confused.
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  #29  
Old 02-04-2015, 08:24 PM
Richard Patterson Richard Patterson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
G'day Richard

But earlier you posted

'I can’t place Thompson firmly in Whitechapel. So I cannot give you anything in point form. I can say that during his vagrancy years;

He frequented the Guildhall Library – In the East End.
He lived in the West India Docks District -In the East End.
He walked nights along Mile End Road –In the East End.
He slept in homeless shelters, most likely the Salvation Army’s Limehouse shelter – In the East End.'

Descriptions of Thompson, on his dressing and living habits come from Thompson’s close associates, and long time friends - people who knew him for many years.'



Perhaps you can see why I am confused.
When I posted this I had not yet found my information that placed Thompson in Whitechapel. I only came across this information, a few days ago, when I was reading the 1967 edition of Walsh's biography on Thompson. To me its reasonable to think that when Thompson could not find a bed in Providence Row, he would have slept in various other localities or walked the streets.
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  #30  
Old 02-04-2015, 08:34 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Thank you for that, it must have been in one of the other Thompson threads or something and I missed it, I'm not sure why we have so many threads dealing with the same issue [and I'm not only referring to Thompson] on the day the Edwards DNA fiasco started I think that 4 threads were started on the same topic.
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