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  #741  
Old 01-15-2017, 03:08 PM
louisa louisa is offline
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Hi John,

No, they actually denied ever giving their children sedatives. Kate's father did say that they sometimes gave the children Calpol, but the active ingredient in this medication is paracetamol which, of course, is not a sedative.
Well they would deny it wouldn't they? How would it look for doctors to admit to giving their children sedatives?

I don't think they were psychotic but I think, being doctors and priding themselves on knowing all about drugs, they were cocky and thought they could control the situation.

If Maddie hadn't been given that tiny drop too much (of whatever it was) then we wouldn't be talking about it. The couple would have continued sedating their children and going out on the booze for the rest of their holiday.

Probably the other doctors in the group were doing similar. Who knows?

There are a lot of drugs out there that the lay person has never heard of - I don't mean over the counter ones like Calpol. The McCanns may have found something that worked well - until this tragedy struck.
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  #742  
Old 01-15-2017, 03:35 PM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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I think the argument that the McCann's sedated their three year old child is completely untenable. I mean, even over the counter sedatives can be dangerous, and generally shouldn't be taken by anyone under the age of 16 (although Nytol is licensed to be taken by children over 12 in some countries-not the UK). To suggest, therefore, that two doctors, would knowingly put their 3 year-old's life at risk simply because they fancied a night out is totally ludicrous unless, of course, it's to he argued that they were both psychotic!
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
Hi John,

No, they actually denied ever giving their children sedatives. Kate's father did say that they sometimes gave the children Calpol, but the active ingredient in this medication is paracetamol which, of course, is not a sedative.
Thanks John I stand corrected.
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  #743  
Old 01-15-2017, 06:09 PM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
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I think the argument that the McCann's sedated their three year old child is completely untenable. I mean, even over the counter sedatives can be dangerous, and generally shouldn't be taken by anyone under the age of 16 (although Nytol is licensed to be taken by children over 12 in some countries-not the UK). To suggest, therefore, that two doctors, would knowingly put their 3 year-old's life at risk simply because they fancied a night out is totally ludicrous unless, of course, it's to he argued that they were both psychotic!
I'm blown away by this health & safety reasoning.

Fact, the child is missing, presumed dead.

Fact, the evidence strongly suggests she died in the apartment and her parents covered up her death and concealed the body

Fact, the twins slept for hours and hours through what was a long night of commotion, shouting, and noise, and had their breathing checked by Kate

Fact, by their own admission they repeatedly left three very small vulnerable children out of sight in an unlocked apartment near a road in a foreign country while they wined and dined. And they did this even after being told by Madeleine that she had been awake and crying for them the night before. What kind of so-called parent would do that? They know their daughter woke up in the dark, at night, in a holiday apartment far from home, cried for her mother, and mother never came. And that mother just thinks oh screw that, we'll do exactly the same thing again tonight because it's fun for us. No guilt, no feeling, no empathy, no parental instinct at all.

And you argue it's untenable to think that they could've used sedatives because that would've been bad and something could've gone wrong and they would've known that?

John, something DID go wrong. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

One way or another those two heartless d!ckholes DID recklessly endanger their kids' lives. Did you not notice that?

Madeleine is dead. And it was their fault.

Last edited by Henry Flower : 01-15-2017 at 06:15 PM.
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  #744  
Old 01-15-2017, 08:35 PM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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Originally Posted by Henry Flower View Post
I'm blown away by this health & safety reasoning.

Fact, the child is missing, presumed dead.

Fact, the evidence strongly suggests she died in the apartment and her parents covered up her death and concealed the body

Fact, the twins slept for hours and hours through what was a long night of commotion, shouting, and noise, and had their breathing checked by Kate

Fact, by their own admission they repeatedly left three very small vulnerable children out of sight in an unlocked apartment near a road in a foreign country while they wined and dined. And they did this even after being told by Madeleine that she had been awake and crying for them the night before. What kind of so-called parent would do that? They know their daughter woke up in the dark, at night, in a holiday apartment far from home, cried for her mother, and mother never came. And that mother just thinks oh screw that, we'll do exactly the same thing again tonight because it's fun for us. No guilt, no feeling, no empathy, no parental instinct at all.

And you argue it's untenable to think that they could've used sedatives because that would've been bad and something could've gone wrong and they would've known that?

John, something DID go wrong. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

One way or another those two heartless d!ckholes DID recklessly endanger their kids' lives. Did you not notice that?

Madeleine is dead. And it was their fault.
There is of course the very real possibility that none of the kids were drugged and Madeline died from something other than an overdose. For Madeline to have died from an overdose you have to assume a level of decency from Kate and Gerry. This can't be assumed. What. I am saying is that something worse than dying from an overdose may have happened to Madeline and we can't assume it didn't because that requires a level of deceny that the McCann's may not have.
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  #745  
Old 01-15-2017, 11:48 PM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by louisa View Post
Well they would deny it wouldn't they? How would it look for doctors to admit to giving their children sedatives?

I don't think they were psychotic but I think, being doctors and priding themselves on knowing all about drugs, they were cocky and thought they could control the situation.

If Maddie hadn't been given that tiny drop too much (of whatever it was) then we wouldn't be talking about it. The couple would have continued sedating their children and going out on the booze for the rest of their holiday.

Probably the other doctors in the group were doing similar. Who knows?

There are a lot of drugs out there that the lay person has never heard of - I don't mean over the counter ones like Calpol. The McCanns may have found something that worked well - until this tragedy struck.
Calpol's active ingredient is paracetamol, which has no sedative effects. It is true that some dippy parents have been known to give their children Diphenhydramine, marketed as Benadryl in the U.S and Nytol in the UK, but this drug can be extremely dangerous when given to young children.

Thus, unlike second generation anti-histamines it has the capability o fully breach the blood-brain barrier, and can therefore access parts of the brain responsible for the cardiovascular system, temperature control, fluid balance, the sleep-wake cycle etc; their have been fatalities as a consequence of overdose.

And, with very young children, it can have unpredictable results, because it tends to concentrate as fluid around the brain.

That is why I say that if the McCann's were giving Maddie sedatives then, as doctors, they must have effectively been knowingly playing Russian roulette with their young child's life, something that I can't accept as being viable.

Nonetheless, there can be no doubt that they were extremely negligent in leaving their children unattended, particularly in a foreign country, and considering they left the door open.

It is theoretically possible that Maddie may have, say, awaken from a bad dream and gone wondering off in search of her absent parents. Or that, in such circumstances, she may have had an accident which was covered up, although I don't see the evidence for this scenario.

However, I think it more likely that child abductors noticed that the parents were in the habit of leaving their children alone whilst they went socialising, and simply took advantage of this fact.
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  #746  
Old 01-16-2017, 06:45 AM
louisa louisa is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
Calpol's active ingredient is paracetamol, which has no sedative effects. It is true that some dippy parents have been known to give their children Diphenhydramine, marketed as Benadryl in the U.S and Nytol in the UK, but this drug can be extremely dangerous when given to young children.

Thus, unlike second generation anti-histamines it has the capability o fully breach the blood-brain barrier, and can therefore access parts of the brain responsible for the cardiovascular system, temperature control, fluid balance, the sleep-wake cycle etc; their have been fatalities as a consequence of overdose.

And, with very young children, it can have unpredictable results, because it tends to concentrate as fluid around the brain.

That is why I say that if the McCann's were giving Maddie sedatives then, as doctors, they must have effectively been knowingly playing Russian roulette with their young child's life, something that I can't accept as being viable.

Nonetheless, there can be no doubt that they were extremely negligent in leaving their children unattended, particularly in a foreign country, and considering they left the door open.

It is theoretically possible that Maddie may have, say, awaken from a bad dream and gone wondering off in search of her absent parents. Or that, in such circumstances, she may have had an accident which was covered up, although I don't see the evidence for this scenario.

However, I think it more likely that child abductors noticed that the parents were in the habit of leaving their children alone whilst they went socialising, and simply took advantage of this fact.
It is possible that Maddie died from something other than a drug overdose, but if she had then I think the parents would have called the paramedics.

The most likely reason the parents would stage an abduction is the drug overdose scenario.

The only other possible reason (as far as I can see) for parents staging an abduction of their child is that they killed her whilst indulging in sex play (I'm ruling this one out) or she died accidentally by some means which the McCanns knew they would not be able to explain away as being accidental. For instance, if they shook her to death or hit her so hard she broke her neck. I think both of those are fairly unlikely.

It is interesting to note that as soon as Kate returned to the apartment (and found Maddie missing) she did not check outside - but shouted over the balcony "SHE'S BEEN TAKEN"

It would have been logical, would it not, for Kate to assume that if Maddie was not in her bed, that she had woken up, found her parents gone (as she had the night before), and gone wandering off in search of them?
.
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  #747  
Old 01-16-2017, 07:09 AM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
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There is of course the very real possibility that none of the kids were drugged and Madeline died from something other than an overdose. For Madeline to have died from an overdose you have to assume a level of decency from Kate and Gerry. This can't be assumed. What. I am saying is that something worse than dying from an overdose may have happened to Madeline and we can't assume it didn't because that requires a level of deceny that the McCann's may not have.
Agreed, yes. The overdose-accident can be resorted to because we can't countenance the worse possibilities as easily, you're right.
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  #748  
Old 01-16-2017, 09:16 AM
louisa louisa is offline
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I can't see the parents being paedophiles. I think they're guilty of some things, but not that. They have two other children.

Most paedos are lone men aren't they? Or am I being naive?
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  #749  
Old 01-16-2017, 09:50 AM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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I can't see the parents being paedophiles. I think they're guilty of some things, but not that. They have two other children.

Most paedos are lone men aren't they? Or am I being naive?
Why can't you see the parents being paedophiles? Other posters have outlined the problems with the theory that they drugged the children. That leaves very few other possibilities. Maddie died in some bizarre accident and the parents covered it up. Maddie died at the hands of one or both parents as the result of physical abuse and that was covered up. Maddie was kidnapped. A few other scenario's I'm really not sure what. Scenario's involving the parents being paedophiles.

I think you're being extremely naive thinking most paedo's are lone men. Most sexual abuse that happens to children is by someone they know, this doesn't really fit with the idea that most paedo's are lone men. They tend to be trusted family members or close family friends.
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  #750  
Old 01-16-2017, 10:53 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
Calpol's active ingredient is paracetamol, which has no sedative effects. It is true that some dippy parents have been known to give their children Diphenhydramine, marketed as Benadryl in the U.S and Nytol in the UK, but this drug can be extremely dangerous when given to young children.

Thus, unlike second generation anti-histamines it has the capability o fully breach the blood-brain barrier, and can therefore access parts of the brain responsible for the cardiovascular system, temperature control, fluid balance, the sleep-wake cycle etc; their have been fatalities as a consequence of overdose.

And, with very young children, it can have unpredictable results, because it tends to concentrate as fluid around the brain.

That is why I say that if the McCann's were giving Maddie sedatives then, as doctors, they must have effectively been knowingly playing Russian roulette with their young child's life, something that I can't accept as being viable.

Nonetheless, there can be no doubt that they were extremely negligent in leaving their children unattended, particularly in a foreign country, and considering they left the door open.

It is theoretically possible that Maddie may have, say, awaken from a bad dream and gone wondering off in search of her absent parents. Or that, in such circumstances, she may have had an accident which was covered up, although I don't see the evidence for this scenario.

However, I think it more likely that child abductors noticed that the parents were in the habit of leaving their children alone whilst they went socialising, and simply took advantage of this fact.
Hi JohnG
I think what Henry was saying is that if the parents are dumb enough to leave their children alone in those circumstances, their dumb enough to give them a sedative.
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