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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Elizabeth Stride

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  #331  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:55 PM
APerno APerno is offline
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I don't understand how the saucy jacky postcard confirms the connection.

If the Dear Boss and saucy jacky postcard are the invention of a journalist (I'm a big Harry Dam fan) then of course the author of the postcard prima facie would connect the two murders and create a wonderful sound bite like "double event."

The creation of the phrase didn't need the author to hold any forensic knowledge; just journalistic (yellow press) opportunism at play. Given the situation (opportunity to sell papers) the postcard author would have likely linked the death of any two sex workers as a 'double event' regardless of the forensics involved; it was just good press.

Besides how much time between observation, composition, and mailing (of the postcard) was available anyway? Certainly not enough to do any kind of real forensic investigation.
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  #332  
Old 01-11-2019, 09:50 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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I have to wonder just how vicious the B.S. man's "attack" could have been if it didn't even dislodge a packet of cachous wrapped in tissue from a woman's hand.

And please don't bring up instances of people clutching things in their hands in death. We are simply talking about what Schwartz said he saw and that is a woman being pushed or thrown to the ground. He did NOT see her being killed.

c.d.
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  #333  
Old 01-12-2019, 05:31 AM
DJA DJA is offline
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Reckon Jack arrived on the scene and offered the cachous to Stride after BS man left.
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  #334  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:09 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
I have to wonder just how vicious the B.S. man's "attack" could have been if it didn't even dislodge a packet of cachous wrapped in tissue from a woman's hand.

And please don't bring up instances of people clutching things in their hands in death. We are simply talking about what Schwartz said he saw and that is a woman being pushed or thrown to the ground. He did NOT see her being killed.

c.d.
He might have seen her getting her throat cut and just didnt realize it
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  #335  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:37 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
He might have seen her getting her throat cut and just didnt realize it
Hello Abby,

That is certainly possible but the police would have pushed Schwartz strongly on that point and since Swanson allows for the possibility of another killer after the B.S. man it would seem that Schwartz would have been quite clear that Stride was alive when he ran off.

Also, Stride didn't die where she was seen by Schwartz and there was no blood trail leading back into the yard so why would the B.S. man bother to drag a dying body after having been seen by two witnesses?

c.d.
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  #336  
Old 01-12-2019, 08:01 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
Hello Abby,

That is certainly possible but the police would have pushed Schwartz strongly on that point and since Swanson allows for the possibility of another killer after the B.S. man it would seem that Schwartz would have been quite clear that Stride was alive when he ran off.

Also, Stride didn't die where she was seen by Schwartz and there was no blood trail leading back into the yard so why would the B.S. man bother to drag a dying body after having been seen by two witnesses?

c.d.
Hi cd
Ive always maintained the possibility that after bs man cuts her throat he bolts, her hand goes to the neck wound and she tries to make her way toward the voices in the club but expires in the yard.
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but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #337  
Old 01-12-2019, 08:10 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi cd
Ive always maintained the possibility that after bs man cuts her throat he bolts, her hand goes to the neck wound and she tries to make her way toward the voices in the club but expires in the yard.
But wouldn't that still have left a blood trail and wouldn't her hand have been covered in blood? Also, her body was found looking like it had been gently laid down. If what you are positing is true you would expect her body to have fallen in a heap.

c.d.
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  #338  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:39 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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If she had staggered while holding her throat there would have been blood all down her front, and down her arm. The blood is under pressure so it will run out faster than she could hope to stop it.
I thought this was one of the clues the doctors noticed which convinced them she was already on her back when the throat was cut.
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  #339  
Old 01-15-2019, 06:31 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APerno View Post
I don't understand how the saucy jacky postcard confirms the connection.

If the Dear Boss and saucy jacky postcard are the invention of a journalist (I'm a big Harry Dam fan) then of course the author of the postcard prima facie would connect the two murders and create a wonderful sound bite like "double event."

The creation of the phrase didn't need the author to hold any forensic knowledge; just journalistic (yellow press) opportunism at play. Given the situation (opportunity to sell papers) the postcard author would have likely linked the death of any two sex workers as a 'double event' regardless of the forensics involved; it was just good press.

Besides how much time between observation, composition, and mailing (of the postcard) was available anyway? Certainly not enough to do any kind of real forensic investigation.
Hi APerno,

The fact remains that we have had a lot more time to analyse the murders of these two unfortunates on the same night, and to compare the details with genuine double events of the modern era, and the postcard author got it pretty much spot on, in the brief time allowed to him. That 'wonderful sound bite' has stood the test of time and history, despite no journalist having the luxury of predicting, in mid-September 1888, that the Whitechapel mutilator - or someone doing an excellent impression of him - would be on the job again within a few days of the Dear Boss letter, or that two women would die by a slit throat on the same night, giving him the idea and opportunity for a double event 'chaser' that would make such 'good press'.

Nobody has been able to establish over the subsequent 130 years that the victims were unconnected by a common killer or cause, and that therefore the author of letter and postcard was an enterprising hoaxer who missed the mark.

Love,

Caz
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  #340  
Old 01-15-2019, 06:52 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
I have to wonder just how vicious the B.S. man's "attack" could have been if it didn't even dislodge a packet of cachous wrapped in tissue from a woman's hand.
Too true, CD.

I'm still rather sceptical about Schwartz's version of events. According to those who believe BS Man was the killer, not only did Stride keep hold of the cachous during her assault, but she also went into the pitch black of the yard with her assailant. Most of the evidence points towards Stride being killed while her guard was down.
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