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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #961  
Old 01-11-2019, 05:05 PM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Can't remember any of those being claimed on the torso threads. It is possible to make statements without misrepresentation, exaggeration or spin, you know.
Not for some posters it isn't.
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  #962  
Old 01-11-2019, 05:40 PM
APerno APerno is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caz View Post
Going back a bit...



You were quite correct, Fish. Griffiths was not speaking about the 'general picture'. He was talking about the risks involved in running, in Lechmere's supposed situation, if he was the killer. That was Griffiths's reasoning. He didn't rate the chances of a killer – any killer – in that situation being able to get away safely. In short, the killer would never have taken such a risk.

There is nothing here about Lechmere choosing to stay because he was a psychopath, with no panic response, abnormal flight reflexes and a penchant for just this kind of challenge, which no other type of killer would have tried, or hoped to pull off. Where does that leave Griffiths's ten out of ten killers who would have stayed? Was he only talking about psychopathic killers? There is also no suggestion here that the killer might still have chosen to stay if he'd had a chance to go. So Griffiths was surely talking about the situation, using his expertise in that regard and relying on the accuracy of his information, while you talk of the killer's supposed behavioural traits. Yet you cling on to what Griffiths said, so you can argue that because Lechmere didn't run, he is perfectly in line with the ten out of ten killers who would never have run either.

Newsflash - because Lechmere didn't run, his behaviour is just as perfectly in line with any number of innocent witnesses who would have stayed put and sought assistance from the next passer-by. What Griffiths said about the situation – as he understood it - does not make Lechmere any more likely to have been the killer than an innocent witness coming upon the killer's victim. Because Lechmere didn't run, he also conformed to the behaviour of ten out of ten lampposts. But we don't need an expert to tell us any of this. Your mantra: "Well he wouldn't have run, because we are told by an expert that no killer ever would" is where it becomes horribly circular and pointless, because it depends entirely on Lechmere staying put because he was a serial killer – and a psychopathic one in your view - which you have not even begun to establish.

Love,

Caz
X
On free fire zones Vietam: If they run, they're VC, if they don't run, they're well disciplined VC. -- Michael Herr, Dispatches
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  #963  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:12 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Psychologists and animal behaviorlists will remind us that there is a third reaction to a possible threat/crisis in addition to fight or flight, and that is freeze.
As in remain motionless.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #964  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:07 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Psychologists and animal behaviorlists will remind us that there is a third reaction to a possible threat/crisis in addition to fight or flight, and that is freeze.
As in remain motionless.
There's a fourth reaction, which is motionfull - i.e. you $hit yourself
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Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
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  #965  
Old 01-14-2019, 03:05 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Hi Jon,
According to the Pall Mall Gazette account of his arrest;

"Police-constable Fraser related that at two in the morning on February 10 he was in Butler-street, Spitalfields, and heard a moaning. He went to the bottom of the street, and in Tenter-street found the woman Graham lying on the pavement, bleeding. The prisoner was stooping over her, and another constable was approaching from the other end of the street, blocking the prisoner's egress. On seeing Fraser, prisoner stood up and stepped away a few feet."

With a PC bearing down on him from each end of the street, he didn't really have the option of slipping away unseen.
Many thanks for digging that out, JR !!
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