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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #951  
Old 12-01-2018, 09:38 AM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
But what if he were a traveler who came to London for work, or specific reasons, and killed and then left London. The dates between the murders might suggest that

I dont altogether buy this suggestion that he was a local man. Although most of the murders took place in an around the back streets, which might point to a local man, they were all in close proximity to main thoroughfares, making it easy for the killer to quickly blend into area where people were moving about in numbers, while all the time the police were scouring the back streets.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
He may have been a client before,knew where they went or where they were available at those early morning hours.At least he knew how to go there
and come back to his "base" in probably a cuple or several ways.

As posted before,as a visitor who came at the end of the month until or and around the 8th and leaves the district,patrols except the early morning of the murders were useless,and so were the house to house searches and rumors from "alert" residents,perhaps a big reason he was never caught.

However remote the possibility the duration of the murders may/could have been related to a produce in season for "autumn" and then sold in Spitalfields Market,the biggest fruit/root/vegetable market in the East End and after the season/supplies ended he stopped/left.


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Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
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  #952  
Old 12-01-2018, 09:41 AM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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In the 1888 East End could Long's "foreign accent" have been a mistake,a dialect/pronunciation from another english county,or under the kingdom like Wales,Irish,was this a practice/non-practice? Or it had to be from another country like Spain or France,whether immigrant or not.

---
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Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
M. Pacana
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  #953  
Old 12-02-2018, 12:38 AM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Originally Posted by Varqm View Post
In the 1888 East End could Long's "foreign accent" have been a mistake,a dialect/pronunciation from another english county,or under the kingdom like Wales,Irish,was this a practice/non-practice? Or it had to be from another country like Spain or France,whether immigrant or not.

---
Wrong on the foreign accent,it was looked.
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Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
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  #954  
Old 12-09-2018, 05:27 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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  #955  
Old 12-09-2018, 07:18 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Hi harry
Interesting. Do you think he bolted straight home first, and then about an hour later, went around the corner and left the gsg and apron, which is why long didnt see it first time around?
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  #956  
Old 12-09-2018, 09:35 AM
Batman Batman is offline
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That's actually quite compelling.

So Joseph Hyam Levy may have been the witness.

How much would this make sense with the Swanson Marginalia if he had confused aspects of Jacob Levy with Kozminski?

Like Kozminski he couldn't have done Coles though.
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  #957  
Old 12-09-2018, 07:28 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
But what if he were a traveler who came to London for work, or specific reasons, and killed and then left London. The dates between the murders might suggest that

I dont altogether buy this suggestion that he was a local man. Although most of the murders took place in an around the back streets, which might point to a local man,
they were all in close proximity to main thoroughfares, making it easy for the killer to quickly blend into area where people were moving about in numbers, while all the time the police were scouring the back streets.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

I agree.Yes a traveler/visitor.It was not a coincidence,the dates,end of month and around the 8th.More than one route could have been planned out including the main thoroughfares.Most of the relevant streets were mostly deserted.Nobody saw a man walked away in an unusual manner in the area near or from Bucks Row,Berner St. and Mitre Square,no one saw Kelly and Blotchy outside the archway or walked down Dorset St..
As posted before he could mingle in the market.The market was open already at 3:00 am,although every day it was open, especially Tues,Thurs,Saturday,was busy with sellers from nearby farms in Essex by carts,all over England by train and carts,and from outside France,Channel and Scilly islands and Spain,etc by ships.train,carts.And buyers from all over London or counties,big institutions like hospitals,prisons,ships,etc..


-----
__________________
Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
M. Pacana

Last edited by Varqm : 12-09-2018 at 07:43 PM.
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  #958  
Old 12-12-2018, 12:20 AM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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More on Spitalfields market....

February 16 1888 :Commission on Market and Tolls.

- Robert Horner:leasee of Spitalfields Market,since 12 years

(Sir Thomas Martineau)

Have you auctions in the market now? Not any.

You are going to use your proposed flower market as an auction room are you not? As an auction room and flower market.

And you either have established or propose to create a flower market? Yes,it will be ready by 1st of March,it is now nearly completed.

So you think that a want is felt for sales by auction? I think so; they seem to be wanting to come there to sell,because they show samples.The great bulk of the samples of fruit,and so on,come up by the Great Eastern via Harwich from Germany and France,and they can bring them into Spitalfields and show the samples,and there sell them...The auction is principally of foreign consignments.

"..the costermongers are very useful people in clearing the market...: I have endeavoured to make roads through Spitalfields market,which there were not before,so that a costermonger,at a given time in the morning,can bring his barrow into the market and load from a grower's van,and so,save 1s or 1s 6d porterage....the costermonger can bring his vehicle to the market at 8 o'clock in the morning..."

"The stall keepers get so many things stolen at night.There are four small streets belonging to the local authority,and what I have applied for
was to have gates to shut the market up at night,and they refused."

- Mr James Allen:farmer Dartford,Kent.

And you have standing rooms for waggons;have you any stall provided? Yes,we have room to pitch the fruit and those sort of things,as well as standing room for the waggons.

Have you any office? No...we have a desk.


- Thomas Matthews,market gardener:

"Formerly we were obliged to be there in the summer as early as two or three o'clock in the morning; the market used to begin at three
o'clock...Now you can get in at any time,and the buyer can bring his carts and unload the goods off the seller's waggons into his cart."

----
__________________
Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
M. Pacana

Last edited by Varqm : 12-12-2018 at 12:23 AM.
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  #959  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:24 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
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If Levy was the killer and disposed of the rag, why did he not do so before he reached this home? Why pass his home and drop it in Goulston Street and then return back to Middlesex Street?

And if the rag was not in place during P C Longs first visit to Goulston Street, then what are we looking at? A killer who went home and took the rag with himself, and who then decided that he needed to go out and throw it in Goulston Street half an hour later? When he could have stashed it in his home until the coppers were off the street, and then quietly burnt it?

I´m all for thinking that the Goulston Street discarding place may point us in the direction of the killers dwellings, but I think the suggestion that the rag was dropped inbetween these two points has much more going for it than any idea that the murderer walked past his home to drop it and then returned home. It makes very little sense.
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  #960  
Old 12-12-2018, 02:07 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varqm View Post
I agree.Yes a traveler/visitor.It was not a coincidence,the dates,end of month and around the 8th.
End of month and "around the 8th" are two different things, so which is it to be? That said, we only have five data points, which isn't much to go on in terms of establishing a meaningful pattern from the dates. It's worse, actually, because the Double Event happened on one day, so we've only got four data points at our disposal. And these four days are merely the ones on which the killer was successful, so goodness knows how many other times he ventured out only to return empty-handed. I find it hard to believe that he struck lucky every single time he went a-hunting.
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