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  #11  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:04 PM
Damaso Marte Damaso Marte is offline
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How one conceals an 8 inch knife is something I rarely see discussed.
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  #12  
Old 11-21-2018, 11:02 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Just ask one of us Aussies
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  #13  
Old 11-22-2018, 12:12 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaso Marte View Post
How one conceals an 8 inch knife is something I rarely see discussed.
Very carefully, I imagine
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  #14  
Old 11-22-2018, 12:21 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
I thought for your V shapes on Eddowes you would have a very long knife involved?
Not for mine or Wickerman's version of events. Eddowes' cheekbones would only have been about four or so inches apart.
Quote:
Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly's heads were nearly severed off.
Again, we're only looking at a span of perhaps five inches, and there's nothing to suggest that the throat wounds were infected in a single, downward chop.
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  #15  
Old 11-22-2018, 01:45 AM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaso Marte View Post
Nichols inquest: "cuts must have been caused by a long-bladed knife, moderately sharp, and used with great violence"

Chapman inquest: "the instrument used at the throat and abdomen was the same. It must have been a very sharp knife with a thin narrow blade, and must have been at least 6 in. to 8 in. in length, probably longer. He should say that the injuries could not have been inflicted by a bayonet or a sword bayonet. They could have been done by such an instrument as a medical man used for post-mortem purposes, but the ordinary surgical cases might not contain such an instrument. Those used by the slaughtermen, well ground down, might have caused them. He thought the knives used by those in the leather trade would not be long enough in the blade."

Eddowes inquest: "The wounds on the face and abdomen prove that they were inflicted by a sharp, pointed knife, and that in the abdomen by one six inches or longer."

No opinion on the knife offered at the Stride and Kelly inquests, apparently.
---Early in the Kelly inquest,during the 1st witness's (Barnett) testimony it was understood Phillips would possibly talk about the weapon in a future day/date.Phillips was not scheduled/told to testify at that day's inquest and was wondering if he should testify that day.But something happened later in the inquest to cause it,as well as additional post-mortem info,to not be done.

The Star
LONDON. MONDAY, 12 NOVEMBER, 1888
(Barnett)
Did you ever hear her say she was afraid of anyone? - Yes, she used to get me to bring her evening papers and see if there was another murder. Beyond that she was not afraid of anyone that I know of.

Here a note was handed into the court from Dr. Phillips asking if he should attend to-day to give his evidence.
The Coroner thought he should just give them roughly an idea of the cause of death, leaving the details of his evidence for a future day, and dispatched a message to that effect,


Echo
London, U.K.
12 November 1888
The Coroner said that the other portion of Dr. Phillips' evidence would be given at the adjourned inquiry.

Evening News
London, U.K.
13 November 1888

THE ABRUPT TERMINATION OF THE INQUEST

Some surprise was created among those present at the inquest in the Shoreditch Town Hall by the abrupt termination of the inquiry, as it was
well known that further evidence would be forthcoming. The coroner himself distinctly told the jury that he was only going to take the preliminary
portion of Dr. G.B. Phillips's evidence, the remainder of which would be more fully given at the adjourned inquiry.


------
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Last edited by Varqm : 11-22-2018 at 01:53 AM.
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  #16  
Old 11-22-2018, 03:21 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
there's nothing to suggest that the throat wounds were infected...
... that should have been "inflicted". Curse this predictive text!
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  #17  
Old 11-22-2018, 03:54 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
... that should have been "inflicted". Curse this predictive text!
Shouldn`t that be neck wounds.
Damn predictive text.
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  #18  
Old 11-22-2018, 04:11 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Not for mine or Wickerman's version of events. Eddowes' cheekbones would only have been about four or so inches apart.
Again, we're only looking at a span of perhaps five inches, and there's nothing to suggest that the throat wounds were infected in a single, downward chop.
I have set out below what Dr Biggs said in relation to the topic being discussed here

" Much of the description is vague and potentially ambiguous. Repeated use of ‘about’ implies estimations rather than measurements of wounds, and the assumption that a long-bladed knife must have been used is not valid: a short or medium blade could have been used to inflict such injuries. (I’m not saying that I think a particular blade was or was not used, I’m just saying it is not possible to be certain from the description and ‘measurements’ in this case.

As with much of what went on ‘back in the day’, learned medical men would assert things without backup, and this would be taken as fact without challenge. By way of example, it is not possible to say that all injuries were caused by the same instrument, comment on the blade’s sharpness or suggest that the injuries were caused with ‘great violence’. This is just somebody giving their opinion as though it were fact, and giving it in such a way that it is virtually meaningless. Saying that the wounds were made ‘downwards’ means nothing without a frame of reference. Stating that the wounds were made ‘from left to right’ is not as clear as it might at first seem, and of course cannot be relied upon. The witness states that the injuries might have been done by a left-handed person’. But equally, they could have been done by a right-handed person. Or a one-handed person!

I could go on, but I don’t want to sound overly harsh when the witness was just doing what was the norm back then. What is important to realize is that much of the myth and legend that has become ‘fact’ over the decades might be based upon testimony such as this... and therefore, is open to question?

All that can be taken with ‘certainty’ from that paragraph is that there were apparent sharp force wounds to the neck and abdomen. Many other things seem to have been ‘assumed’. The weapon was ‘probably’ a knife, but there is no guarantee of this (and the size / shape / sharpness / etc. cannot be guessed from the description of the wounds). There could have been more than one weapon. The assailant could have been right or left-handed... death might have been caused by blood loss from the wounds... but could also have arisen from a different mechanism (such as a cardiac air embolus or a tension pneumothorax). Some (or all) of the injuries could have been inflicted after death. Has the possibility of self-inflicted injury been satisfactorily excluded, or just dismissed? Etc.

Much of what is ‘known’ appears to be little more than subjective opinion / assumption / guesswork. Even if we can accept all of the ‘objective’ record as fact, there is so little of this available now that it becomes difficult to draw any firm conclusions this far down the line."

Dr Biggs full assessment of the medical evidence in these murders can be found in my book, now available in both kindle and paperback

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jack-Ripper...85468 &sr=1-1
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  #19  
Old 11-22-2018, 05:09 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
I have set out below what Dr Biggs said in relation to the topic being discussed here

" Much of the description is vague and potentially ambiguous. Repeated use of ‘about’ implies estimations rather than measurements of wounds, and the assumption that a long-bladed knife must have been used is not valid: a short or medium blade could have been used to inflict such injuries..."
Thanks, Trevor (and Dr Biggs, of course )

That's good to know.
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2018, 05:54 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
Shouldn`t that be neck wounds.
Damn predictive text.
Lol!!!
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