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Lechmere/Cross, Charles: So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel? - by caz 33 minutes ago.
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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #781  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:23 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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No Fisherman and Abby,Griffiths and his credentials do not worry me.The worry seems to be on your side, you being so relient on his continued inclusion to bolster a theory that lacks evidence and credibility.Yes I know an Andy Griffith is an Australian commedian.I did at one time wonder he was the Andy Griffith in the documentary,being as comedy and the theory are so closely related.

We have the statement of Griffith,who is adamant,according to Fisherman,that the killer of Nichols would never have run.What is not included in the statement is WHY,and I suppose,though it is not mentioned,would not hide either.Now do not ask me if hiding was a possibility,the rules seem to be that a claim does not have to have a supporting explanation.If Nichols could reach Bucks Row without being seen or heard,then I see no reason why the killer could not have departed without being seen or heard,hence I see no reason for staying.
Well harry
If you knew that the laughing about Andy griffith was in reference to the australian comedian and not the criminologist then i guess youll admit your mistake when you said people were laughing at the criminologist because his credentials were suspect?
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Last edited by Abby Normal : 11-20-2018 at 10:27 PM.
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  #782  
Old 11-21-2018, 12:10 AM
harry harry is offline
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Abby,
The mistake I made,was in wondering if the Australian Andy Griffith was the person reffered to.So I am admitting to that mistake.Does that change things?
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  #783  
Old 11-21-2018, 01:17 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is online now
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And that's why I doubt the police would have confronted Lechmere immediately, had they checked up on him and discovered his name wasn't really Cross, and that he used Lechmere on every occasion except when finding murdered women in the street. That would be evidence of deliberate deception, but not enough to hold him on suspicion of anything worse. He was bound to have an 'innocent' explanation for the name change, whether he was genuinely innocent, or a criminal with something to hide, so there would have been little to gain from asking the question and alerting him to the fact that he was in their sights as more than just an honest witness. And Lechmere would have had no opportunity to explain himself - yet.

If and when he put another foot wrong, however, the police could have been ready and waiting, for all he knew. How much harder would it then have been to find a second or a third 'innocent' explanation, when combined with his one-off use of a different name? For starters, there was the apparent lie he told PC Mizen on the night of the murder, and the apparent lie he told under oath at the inquest, using the wrong name, when he contradicted Mizen's version of their conversation. He had no way of knowing if the police were making careful notes and adding them to concerns they already had about him. He really would have been operating in the dark to pick up Annie Chapman so soon afterwards. Lucky old Lech!

Love,

Caz
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The whole answer to this in my opinion is very simple.

It matters not what name he used up until the inquest, the point is that any ambiguities regarding this were obviously clarified by then, by the police, as there is no evidence that he was questioned about using different names, or that anyone had any cause for concern about him using different names when he gave his inquest testimony.

This name issue is just another smoke screen Fish is using to paper over the cracks in his wild speculative theory.

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  #784  
Old 11-22-2018, 10:36 AM
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caz caz is offline
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I honestly tried to work up the will to answer the old "He would not have run", "He seems to have been honest" and "Serial killers don´t make children" arguments, but I really couldn´t make myself do it.

Caz dislikes hearing about psychopaths, so let´s ruin her day while at the same time offer the ones who do not know how these people work get educated. This is a very comprehensive video that basically explains all we need to know about psychopathy. Take twelve minutes and wise up, people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dv8...&feature=share

Let´s hope that Caz understands who is the real twit after having watched it...

That´s all from me for today.
Just watched the video you recommended, Fish. At around 8 minutes in, I'm told by the expert that psychopaths often don't think in terms of consequences, so they have a tendency to lie, cheat and steal and they tend to have very inconsistent work histories - because they are not able to hold a job.

So much for ruining my day, eh Fishy?

So who is the real twit?

Love,

Caz
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  #785  
Old 11-22-2018, 11:35 AM
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caz caz is offline
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I think he killed after Kelly, Darryl. And I know your stance, and I am not misrepresenting you.

Your whole point is that he could not have known if he was under suspicion.

My whole point is that psychopaths always work from the assumption that they are too clever to ever get under suspicion, and even if they end up as suspects, they believe that they will be able to talk their way out of it.

The whole problem with the "He would have run" argument and the "He would never dare to do that" argument, is that you are not researching the Ripper - you are researching Darryl Kenyon, and concluding that you would NEVER...! No, Sir - way too risky!

These people are not like you and me. Sutcliffe was interviewed NINE times. That should have put him off, right? But did it? No. And why? Because he worked from the assumption that he would not get caught. Or he did not even care, as long as he was free to kill. Experience told him he could go on. If they speak to you nine times and if they can´t nail you, then why stop?
Ridgway was suspected and kept killing.
Gacy was suspected and kept killing.
Bundy got caught and escaped from prison. Did he go to South America and stay calm? Or did he go to Florida and kill a whole bunch of women, leaving his teeth marks on the buttock of one victim?
That is what these guys do. There is no tomorrow for them, there is only here and now when they kill.

Here´s a question for you, Darryl - would you merrily spend an hour or two in a locked room with Carl Panzram, if he was under suspicion of murder? On account of how you could feel safe in that case?

I know I wouldn´t.
Right, so remind me of Andy Griffiths's reasoning on this one, Fish. When he said he was 'adamant' that a serial killer in Lechmere's position would 'never' have run away [this assumes of course that Lechmere was indeed a serial killer, and not just an innocent witness who stayed to ask the next passer-by to assist], was this not because the killer would have feared the consequences of running and possibly being caught as a result? How would that fit with your ripper being a psychopath? Or was Griffiths only talking about psychopathic serial killers, and saying they would 'never' [that word again] have feared the consequences of running away in those circumstances, but would simply always opt for staying put and talking their way out of it - because they are all clever like that?

Did Griffiths mean 'no serial killer' would ever have run, or 'no psychopathic serial killer'? Was he not referring to the precarious position Lechmere was in if he was the killer, and the risks involved if he had tried to leg it? If not, what exactly was he referring to? Because you seem to be saying that Lechmere, in the ripper's shoes, would have seen no precarious position, but just the irresistible chance to show off how clever he was.

In short, how does your position equate with Griffiths's?

Love,

Caz
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Last edited by caz : 11-22-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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  #786  
Old 11-22-2018, 12:09 PM
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My own theory is that the murderer was a regular user of prostitutes...
Mine too, etenguy. I would imagine he was at the very least comfortable with approaching, or being approached by his victim type, and not appearing to them like a fish out of water.

I don't know how many hours Lechmere spent working each day, including the walk there and back, but I also wonder how much time and energy he had left for engaging with prostitutes, considering all those prams he was busy filling at home.

Serial killing seems like a hobby far more suited to those with too much time on their hands and nobody to answer to - which might explain the explosion over the next century, as working hours became fewer and more flexible, and conditions less harsh, and families became much smaller, lessening financial responsibilities and increasing personal freedom.

Love,

Caz
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  #787  
Old 11-22-2018, 12:13 PM
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Tumbletwat... the most incompetent Ripper suspect of them all.
That's a tall story, Gareth.

Love,

Caz
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  #788  
Old 11-22-2018, 12:38 PM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by caz View Post
Mine too, etenguy. I would imagine he was at the very least comfortable with approaching, or being approached by his victim type, and not appearing to them like a fish out of water.

Which makes the point Ive raised a thousand times here more pertinent...just how many victims can we be sure were soliciting when they met their killer. The answer is 2. We have statements that Polly and Annie admitted to their activities to confidantes. That's it.

Serial killing seems like a hobby far more suited to those with too much time on their hands and nobody to answer to - which might explain the explosion over the next century, as working hours became fewer and more flexible, and conditions less harsh, and families became much smaller, lessening financial responsibilities and increasing personal freedom.

I realize that 2 murders can constitute a "series", but the way I see the outdoor killings could easily have been done on the way to, or from, work. Particularly if the work involved blood of some sort.
I would imagine unless he changed his appearance often, he wouldn't have been someone that the streetwalkers knew, before the first killing anyway.
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  #789  
Old 11-22-2018, 01:42 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by caz View Post
psychopaths... tend to have very inconsistent work histories - because they are not able to hold a job.
Mind you, twenty years of delivering goods of various kinds must be enough to tip anyone over the edge
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  #790  
Old 11-25-2018, 01:06 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Even by 1888 you needed more than just circumstantial evidence for homicide convictions. You couldn't even hold people for very long without evidence, if at all. Witnesses who directly identified someone were the strongest evidence they had outside of being caught red-handed and it is often these types of convictions that are not always sound.
Were you not some sort of a biologist? Or are you in fact a barrister? If you are going to challenge Scobie on this matter, that is what it takes. If he says there is a prima faciae case suggesting that Lechmere was the killer, then that is arguably based on better insight into matters of law than what can be offered by a biologist.

Correct me if I´m wrong.
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