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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #551  
Old 11-16-2018, 10:51 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
Great post Caz, I would just like to add would he seriously kill just a week later using the same ruse after narrowly escaping the last time?
Thanks Darryl.

I fear the fearless psychopath argument is being brushed up as I type, so Fish can try and give us the usual brush off.

I seem to recall someone arguing that Lechmere killed again that quickly, and in Hanbury Street, to get Robert Paul suspected. So after failing so miserably to introduce a phantom killer who narrowly escaped from Buck's Row, he ordered Serial Killing For Dummies but it evidently didn't arrive in time, so he shifted the blame onto the bloke who arrived after him, despite this being another physical impossibility according to Inspector Fish.

I'm off to inspect a steak or two - very rare with peppercorn sauce, chips and a smooth Italian red.

Love,

Caz
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  #552  
Old 11-16-2018, 11:20 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Harry, are you deliberately ignoring the fact that Lechmere had only recently moved away from STGITE, where he had lived close by his mother all his adult life, to Doveton Street when the murders started? (I don’t have my notes to hand, but his children moved to their new school in early/mid 1888 I think? Fish?)

His route to work was therefore a new one and unlike his previous route took him through the heart of Spitalfields.

Why did he move, I wonder? Even though he had a growing family (7/8 kids?) he moved to a smaller house, 4 rooms compared to 6, and possibly as a consequence had to leave one of his children behind with his mother. It doesn’t appear he was upwardly mobile. It may not have been a particularly welcome move.

It seems to me there are potential triggers in all this: moving away from the influence of his mother; a possible unwelcome downsizing of his home and the leaving behind of his eldest daughter; finding himself in a new environment on his route to work and experiencing feelings of anonymity; coming into contact with a greater concentration of homeless women and being solicited by them.

The ‘coincidence’ of the timing of his move and the start of the murders doesn’t hurt the Lechmere theory in the slightest.
It didn't take long for his new circumstances to tip him over the edge, if that's what happened. He must have been a ticking bomb.

(Genuinely interesting stuff, by the way.)
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  #553  
Old 11-16-2018, 12:06 PM
Batman Batman is offline
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Eldest daughter staying with grandparent = helping grandparent.

Obviously, Cross's sex life seems fine with 7-8 kids, for 1888 Whitechapel.

I don't see anything off about this, nor triggers.

In fact, 7-8 kids indicate he is likely not a lust murderer.
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  #554  
Old 11-16-2018, 12:51 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Eldest daughter staying with grandparent = helping grandparent.

Obviously, Cross's sex life seems fine with 7-8 kids, for 1888 Whitechapel.

I don't see anything off about this, nor triggers.

In fact, 7-8 kids indicate he is likely not a lust murderer.
As I say, I don’t have access to my notes at the moment, but from memory there was a 5-year gap in child production between 1886 and 1891. What that might say about his sex life during that period, I couldn’t say.

Perhaps triggers was the wrong word. Would stressors be better? The trigger may have been the press coverage of the Tabram affair.

Another significant stressor might have been economic. This would have been the time in his life when he had the greatest number of dependents. He was only a lowly carman don’t forget. And yet, according to Charles Booth’s researcher, the family were ‘v. decent’. How did he manage that, I wonder? With the help of his mother, I would imagine. She had received an inheritance from her father who had been the butler of the Clive family (Clive of India’s relatives). So he may have been reliant on his mother’s largesse to maintain standards. And he may secretly have resented that.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 11-16-2018 at 01:20 PM.
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  #555  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:06 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
It didn't take long for his new circumstances to tip him over the edge, if that's what happened. He must have been a ticking bomb.

(Genuinely interesting stuff, by the way.)
It’s possible, but who knows, he might have been just a v. decent chap blessed with a supportive Ma, a loving wife and a happy brood of kiddies.
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  #556  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:30 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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(I don’t have my notes to hand, but his children moved to their new school in early/mid 1888 I think? Fish?
It was in June, Gary.
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  #557  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:36 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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It was in June, Gary.
Thanks, Fish.
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  #558  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:39 PM
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I honestly tried to work up the will to answer the old "He would not have run", "He seems to have been honest" and "Serial killers don´t make children" arguments, but I really couldn´t make myself do it.

Caz dislikes hearing about psychopaths, so let´s ruin her day while at the same time offer the ones who do not know how these people work get educated. This is a very comprehensive video that basically explains all we need to know about psychopathy. Take twelve minutes and wise up, people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dv8...&feature=share

Let´s hope that Caz understands who is the real twit after having watched it...

That´s all from me for today.
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  #559  
Old 11-16-2018, 02:02 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
Great post Caz, I would just like to add would he seriously kill just a week later using the same ruse after narrowly escaping the last time?
Hi DK
Not sure I understand this. the ripper, whether lech or not, did just that.
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  #560  
Old 11-16-2018, 02:06 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
As I say, I don’t have access to my notes at the moment, but from memory there was a 5-year gap in child production between 1886 and 1891. What that might say about his sex life during that period, I couldn’t say.

Perhaps triggers was the wrong word. Would stressors be better? The trigger may have been the press coverage of the Tabram affair.

Another significant stressor might have been economic. This would have been the time in his life when he had the greatest number of dependents. He was only a lowly carman don’t forget. And yet, according to Charles Booth’s researcher, the family were ‘v. decent’. How did he manage that, I wonder? With the help of his mother, I would imagine. She had received an inheritance from her father who had been the butler of the Clive family (Clive of India’s relatives). So he may have been reliant on his mother’s largesse to maintain standards. And he may secretly have resented that.
Hi Gary
or Tabram could have been the trigger kill. whether lech was the ripper or not. As in the ripper, having these dark fantasies, after a botched attack on Millwood, lays low for a while, until he is accosted by a drunk Tabram and loses it. this time he kills but now hes on the path to no return.
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