Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - by Wickerman 2 minutes ago.
Mary Jane Kelly: Did Mary Kelly meet the Bethnal Green Botherer? - by Wickerman 28 minutes ago.
Mary Jane Kelly: Did Mary Kelly meet the Bethnal Green Botherer? - by Wickerman 41 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - by DJA 2 hours ago.
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - by packers stem 2 hours ago.
Mary Jane Kelly: Was Mary Kelly a Ripper victim? - by c.d. 2 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - (76 posts)
Scene of the Crimes: distances between kills.odd - (15 posts)
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - (9 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Was Mary Kelly a Ripper victim? - (7 posts)
Torso Killings: JtR failed amputation. Torso killer was successful. - (5 posts)
Levy, Jacob: Jacob the Ripper - (5 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #511  
Old 11-15-2018, 02:07 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 11,456
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Yes, so they may well have thought "wow, this woman has an inch-wide smear of dirt across her throat. And look at THAT smear on her abdomen!"
You're assuming they'd have noticed anything in the first place, but it's by no means guaranteed. Like I said, it's difficult to see dark red things in dim light.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #512  
Old 11-15-2018, 02:11 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
Paul didn't see any blood even when feeling her hands and breastbone.

That corroborates Cross thinking her a tarpaulin.

Paul had no intention of going near her by his own admission.
But could a guilty Lechmere have been sure of that? Especially If Paul had heard him running away from the body, arousing his suspicion that an assault of some kind had taken place?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #513  
Old 11-15-2018, 02:18 PM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,824
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Killing Nicholas? Does that mean there will be no X-mas this year...?
No it means autocorrect on my phone is a pain in the arse.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #514  
Old 11-15-2018, 02:47 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,363
Default

The killer, whoever he was, adjusted Nichol's clothing, presumably to hide her injuries, didn't he?

Genuine question.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #515  
Old 11-15-2018, 04:24 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
The killer, whoever he was, adjusted Nichol's clothing, presumably to hide her injuries, didn't he?

Genuine question.
Looks that way. But i could see if lech wasnt the ripper, then the ripper may have done it before he took off because of lech.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #516  
Old 11-15-2018, 04:40 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Looks that way. But i could see if lech wasnt the ripper, then the ripper may have done it before he took off because of lech.
I wonder why the ripper might have done that.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 11-15-2018 at 04:43 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #517  
Old 11-15-2018, 04:47 PM
harry harry is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,914
Default

In answer to post 443.
I do not know how the police would have approached the problem of checking the chances of Cross being the only peron to have association of all the murder sites.To my understanding it was never a problem in 1888,and has only been claimed in recent years.So it is the persons of tody who make the claim,to support it with evidence.

Like every other element of the case against Cross,theoretically it appears a good point,but as with every other element put forward by his accusers,it fails miserably in being supported by fact.

Have to go I'm celebratin my 91st birthday today.Might see Lechmere at the bar.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #518  
Old 11-15-2018, 05:43 PM
Batman Batman is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
But could a guilty Lechmere have been sure of that? Especially If Paul had heard him running away from the body, arousing his suspicion that an assault of some kind had taken place?
I think a brisk morning to work walk would have seen him well out Buck's Row before Paul may have noticed Nichols.

Why do I think this?

I think this because JtR probably did exactly that just as Cross turned onto Buck's Row.

If unfortunates like Nichols knew spots in Buck's row, then they are the ones who give JtR the window in a PCs beat. After that, it is just civilians in the way.

I don't accept Nichols was his first victim. I think from prior assaults plus the time he spent with Tabrams gave him an idea of how much time he had to inflict mutilations.

If one believes in the high-risk opportunistic model, and JtR just got lucky, then even this model would accept he learned to time by experimenting.

So with Nichols, JtR understood he had roughly a max amount of time that the unfortunate told them they had and within those minutes he experimented with what he could do while watching out for the first sign of anyone coming.

Cross was likely that person.
__________________
Bona fide canonical and then some.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #519  
Old 11-15-2018, 06:39 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
I think a brisk morning to work walk would have seen him well out Buck's Row before Paul may have noticed Nichols.

Why do I think this?

I think this because JtR probably did exactly that just as Cross turned onto Buck's Row.

If unfortunates like Nichols knew spots in Buck's row, then they are the ones who give JtR the window in a PCs beat. After that, it is just civilians in the way.

I don't accept Nichols was his first victim. I think from prior assaults plus the time he spent with Tabrams gave him an idea of how much time he had to inflict mutilations.

If one believes in the high-risk opportunistic model, and JtR just got lucky, then even this model would accept he learned to time by experimenting.

So with Nichols, JtR understood he had roughly a max amount of time that the unfortunate told them they had and within those minutes he experimented with what he could do while watching out for the first sign of anyone coming.

Cross was likely that person.

How many East End police beats do you think Polly Nichols was familiar with, bearing in mind she hadn't been in the area for very long, didn't own a watch and was probably drunk more often than not?

Last edited by MrBarnett : 11-15-2018 at 07:00 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #520  
Old 11-15-2018, 06:57 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,363
Default

I think a brisk morning to work walk would have seen him well out Buck's Row before Paul may have noticed Nichols.

Why do I think this?

I think this because JtR probably did exactly that just as Cross turned onto Buck's Row.


Very scientific.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.