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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #491  
Old 11-15-2018, 09:06 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by caz View Post
He would have been Fish's number one suspect, etenguy. No doubt about it. Paul was the one who had a rant against the police. Paul lied in the same newspaper by bigging up his own role in the affair. Paul initially failed to attend the inquest. Paul had to be tracked down and got up in the middle of the night to be questioned and made to give his account at the inquest. Paul had as much reason as Cross to be in Hanbury Street the following weekend when Chapman was murdered. Because Paul the liar claimed to arrive at the scene in Buck's Row after Cross, Fish may not have bothered to look in as much detail into any other possible associations in time and place which Paul may have had with other murders.

Not that I believe for a second that Paul should be considered a better suspect, or a suspect at all, but he and Cross should at least have equal 'person of interest' status on the information we do have about them. Yet Fish appears to give Paul a completely free pass for some reason, while insisting that Cross fits all the criteria to be the ripper.

Love,

Caz
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Letīs see here, Caz, do you get to answer for me about what I would have said and done? Ehmmm, tough one, that...

Nope. Got it. You donīt.

The first thing we must accept to have Paul as the killer is that he must have left home, gone into Bucks Row, heard Lechmere, returned in the direction Lechmere was coming from instead of heading the other way, hidden halfway down Bucks Row, waited for Lechmere to pass and then left his hiding place, where Lechmere accidentally had not spotted him while passing, and joined his fellow carman at the murder scene.

Anybody who suggests something like that needs to have his head checked.

Or chopped off. Not literally, of course, only by way of being thrown to the wolves intellectually speaking.

Last edited by Fisherman : 11-15-2018 at 09:23 AM.
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  #492  
Old 11-15-2018, 09:28 AM
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caz caz is offline
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In answer to the question, of course someone residing in Doveton Street could have been the murderer. As I've pointed out before, Lechmere's residence was only around a mile from all of the C5 sites.

However, let's consider Jack Random from Flower and Dean Street. He's just 0.6 miles walking distance from Mitre Square, if he goes via Wentworth Street-the GSG was found on the corner of Wentworth Street and Goulston Street; 0.6 miles from Durward Street; 0.4 miles from Hanbury Street; 0.5 miles from Henriques Street; and a mere 0.2 miles from Whites Row.

He is therefore within about half a mile of all the murder sites. Moreover, if you take into account other factors, such as work address, former work addresses, former residences, girlfriend's addresses, former girlfriends' addresses, etc, you will no doubt be able to discover even closer connections.

On that basis, what makes Jack Random less likely to be the killer than Lechmere, particularly as there is no substantive evidence linking Lechmere to any murder.

Thus, there is no forensic evidence, such as signs of blood on his person, or being discovered with a blood stained knife. No evidence that he was a violent character. No confession. No witnesses observing him commit a murder, or flee a murder scene.

All there is, from a substantive perspective, is the fact that he found a body close to the time when a murder took place. Well, someone had to find the body. And both Louis D and PC Thompson discovered the body of murder victims shortly after the murder took place. Does that make them prime suspects?
Jack Random is more likely to have been the killer, John, on the very simple grounds that there are no documented cases of one who chose to stay with his nearly decapitated, freshly killed victim, to wait for the next man - whoever that might be - to reach the spot, then steer him over to where the body was, requiring him to inspect the damage. Or if there are such cases, Fish evidently does not think it necessary or desirable to draw our attention to them, which frankly I would find quite astonishing, considering his efforts to convince us all that Lechmere makes a much better suspect than one who would have left the scene unseen, because he wanted to remain anonymous and may well not have had a good excuse for being there, if the victim led her killer to the scene and not the other way round.

Love,

Caz
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  #493  
Old 11-15-2018, 09:30 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by caz View Post
He would have been Fish's number one suspect, etenguy. No doubt about it. Paul was the one who had a rant against the police. Paul lied in the same newspaper by bigging up his own role in the affair. Paul initially failed to attend the inquest. Paul had to be tracked down and got up in the middle of the night to be questioned and made to give his account at the inquest. Paul had as much reason as Cross to be in Hanbury Street the following weekend when Chapman was murdered. Because Paul the liar claimed to arrive at the scene in Buck's Row after Cross, Fish may not have bothered to look in as much detail into any other possible associations in time and place which Paul may have had with other murders.

Not that I believe for a second that Paul should be considered a better suspect, or a suspect at all, but he and Cross should at least have equal 'person of interest' status on the information we do have about them. Yet Fish appears to give Paul a completely free pass for some reason, while insisting that Cross fits all the criteria to be the ripper.

Love,

Caz
X
Hi Caz
are you being sarcastic with this post? Paul came upon lech who was already by the dead victim. Your not seriously suggesting paul murdered Nichols, left and then circled around to re enter bucks row are you?
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  #494  
Old 11-15-2018, 09:38 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
Lech turns up for work not long after he murders Polly.
He then turns up for work not long after murdering Annie a week later.
He then turns up at work three weeks later and say, ten minutes after murdering Kate.
Sorry, I don't buy it.
HI DK
I see where your coming from-its one of my main beefs with lech also-murdering on his way to work. You would think it would be better for him to murder on his way home from work.

but perhaps he didnt get off at the right time-perhaps too early for their to be prostitutes out? or something else in his personal circs that didnt allow it.
who knows?
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #495  
Old 11-15-2018, 09:44 AM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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Hi Caz
are you being sarcastic with this post? Paul came upon lech who was already by the dead victim. Your not seriously suggesting paul murdered Nichols, left and then circled around to re enter bucks row are you?
It's no more fanciful than Lechmere killing Nicholas.
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  #496  
Old 11-15-2018, 09:55 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by John Wheat View Post
It's no more fanciful than Lechmere killing Nicholas.
perhaps a little bit more lol
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #497  
Old 11-15-2018, 10:46 AM
Batman Batman is offline
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Again, much as you claim it inexplicable, others claim the opposite. What if you are wrong, Batman? Is that even a remote possibility...? And can you please establish the exact distance Paul was from Lechmere when the latter noticed him? You see, I think that may have a great deal to do with the matter.
Plus, if you please, can you be so nice as to comment on why the clothing hid the wounds, because that too may be totally crucial.
I think this photo is a good example of 40 yards on Buck's row.

It's about the distance from the light at the gates to the figure in the distance under the second light.

That's a lit street.

There is quite some distance there.

It was too dark to see blood or wounds.

Paul, at the least, made attempts to pull back down her skirt raised almost to her stomach.

Both of them were feeling her hands and cheeks.

Cross believed she was dead. Paul didn't know and thought she was maybe breathing.

Paul was obviously wrong. You don't breath with your neck nearly severed.
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  #498  
Old 11-15-2018, 11:32 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Batman View Post
I think this photo is a good example of 40 yards on Buck's row.

It's about the distance from the light at the gates to the figure in the distance under the second light.

That's a lit street.

There is quite some distance there.

It was too dark to see blood or wounds.

Paul, at the least, made attempts to pull back down her skirt raised almost to her stomach.

Both of them were feeling her hands and cheeks.

Cross believed she was dead. Paul didn't know and thought she was maybe breathing.

Paul was obviously wrong. You don't breath with your neck nearly severed.
If you can see a body and identify it as a woman from three yards away, then it is not too dark to see blood or wounds, Iīm afraid. I am pretty certain that the carmen (or Paul, at least) worked from the supposition that there had been blood to see, something that may well be wrong. Once you work from such a supposition and realize that you saw no blood, it is a logical conclusion that it was due to the prevailing darkness. But if you can identify a woman from three yards off, if you can see her hat, her hands etc, then you can also see blood and wounds.

As for Paul "obviously" being wrong, there is nothing obvious about that at all. There are reflexes and such that can move after having had the neck cut - or severed, even - and so he may well have felt the body stir.
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  #499  
Old 11-15-2018, 11:33 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by John Wheat View Post
It's no more fanciful than Lechmere killing Nicholas.
Killing Nicholas? Does that mean there will be no X-mas this year...?
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  #500  
Old 11-15-2018, 11:37 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by caz View Post
Jack Random is more likely to have been the killer, John, on the very simple grounds that there are no documented cases of one who chose to stay with his nearly decapitated, freshly killed victim, to wait for the next man - whoever that might be - to reach the spot, then steer him over to where the body was, requiring him to inspect the damage. Or if there are such cases, Fish evidently does not think it necessary or desirable to draw our attention to them, which frankly I would find quite astonishing, considering his efforts to convince us all that Lechmere makes a much better suspect than one who would have left the scene unseen, because he wanted to remain anonymous and may well not have had a good excuse for being there, if the victim led her killer to the scene and not the other way round.

Love,

Caz
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To be a better suspect, Jack Random needs to be found by a freshly killed victims side, use the name Stupid instead of Random (a wise choice), disagree with the police, just happen to have a daily trek that took him past the murder sites or close to them, have links to St Georges and the Mitre Square area and so on.
The points FOR Lechmere do not go away on account of how you personally believe that he would have run in Bucks Row. Andy Griffiths, indefinitely better suited to understand this than you will ever be, was adamant that he would never have run.

Ooops, Caz.
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