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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #401  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:24 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
My take is not set in stone, Gary. There is merit in the suggestion that he may have wished to protect the family name.
My reasoning goes like this:
If he felt he had no choice but to go to the inquest, he may have felt inclined to hide his identity from those who knew him.
If he had chosen to lie about all parts of his identity, the police would have revealed that if they checked the information, and he would be in very bad trouble.
So what COULD he hide?
Well, he could not hide his address from the police, if they checked.
He could not hide his working place, for the same reason.
But he COULD provide them with another name than his official one, and claim to use Cross at times - it was not unlawful. If the police did not ask "Is this your registered name", he would be in the clear.
At the inquest, with the press present, he could take it a step further, by not naming his address - and it seems he may not have done so, since only the Star had it, implicating that they may have gotten it from a desk clerk, whereas the other papers missed out on account of his omission.

To me, it is a bit too much of a coincidence that the exact measures he was able to take to hide his identity also seems to have been taken, and so I opt for him deliberately concealing information to mislead those who read the inquest reports - or had it read to them...
I agree Fish
and perhaps to keep his more commonly used name out of the papers might have been done (if guilty) to perhaps keep it from wife, family members, friends, cowrkers etc. who might have put two and two together if they had seen or suspected anything suspicious from him.
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  #402  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:26 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
At least Bundy had a trunk, and with a car attached, whereas JTR had to make do with getting to (and from) his victims on foot, with little more than the clothes on his back in which to hide his knife and stash his trophies. Given these constraints, I seriously doubt that he'd have strayed far from home, and I doubt that he'd have had anything planned for quite some time after a successful kill. Therefore, the idea that he was a pedestrian commuter from Bethnal Green en route to start a shift of work just doesn't ring true.
Your killer would have accepted ten minutes walking on the streets. Mine would have accepted twenty.

There really is no material difference - ten minutes and twenty minutes are both very long times to walk the streets after a murder, and anyone who does that has accepted to take that kind of risk.

Last edited by Fisherman : 11-14-2018 at 12:31 PM.
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  #403  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:29 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Batman View Post
How many were on Buck's row when Nichols was found?

Notice I said...



Meaning, in your route to work model, investigators re-visiting the scene of the crimes, could help but fail to notice the same worker re-visiting the scenes of the crimes, at the exact times they were murdered, according to your model.
There were THOUSANDS of people living there who were as likely or likelier than Lechmere to be the killer. Or so I´m told. And if there was, they would have needed to be on the streets, since they could not kill by remote control.

Or have you come around to realizing that there was basically no people at all on the small streets of Spitalfields at these hours?

Which is it?

In any case, I don´t think that I have seen a single report of PC:s searching the dwellers of the East End or read about such measures being taken.

Last edited by Fisherman : 11-14-2018 at 12:32 PM.
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  #404  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:30 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
I agree Fish
and perhaps to keep his more commonly used name out of the papers might have been done (if guilty) to perhaps keep it from wife, family members, friends, cowrkers etc. who might have put two and two together if they had seen or suspected anything suspicious from him.
That is how I reason, yes.
Then again, it seems I have not payed any real attention to the alternative innocent suggestions. Or so I´m told. By some.
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  #405  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:47 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Am I reading this right, Steve? Are you saying that I may well just have been "paying lip" to the suggestion? Instead of simply accepting that I really do consider what I say I consider?
And why are you talking about how you "have to accept" that I am honest about this?
You don´t have to accept anything. If you think I am deluded or a liar or anythin g along those lines, then say so by all means. I would not want any beating about the bush, and I certainly don´t pull any punches when I find your posts lacking in any way. So be my guest!

Fish,
It appears you are not reading it correctly,

Maybe this is because you appear to have interpreted my original post to Gary as being aimed at your good self.

The original comments were not aim exclusively at you, but Lechmere supporters in general, some of whom in my experience on Say Facebook, are not as open minded as yourself, and are fixed on that Lechmere must be the killer.

You gave your reasons for accepting one alternative over another, my comments were intended to accept your personal reasoning, but to question if such applied to other supporters.

If someone says they have done something, one either has to accept it or reject it surely, and just as I accept that you had no control over the Documentary, I accept that you have considered this particular issue.

I hope that has clarified the posts


Steve

Last edited by Elamarna : 11-14-2018 at 12:58 PM.
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  #406  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:52 PM
Batman Batman is online now
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
There were THOUSANDS of people living there who were as likely or likelier than Lechmere to be the killer. Or so I´m told. And if there was, they would have needed to be on the streets, since they could not kill by remote control.
Convergence from the outskirts to the centre of Whitechapel and onwards to the city centre means it gets busier on the main roads and not so empty.

Quote:
Or have you come around to realizing that there was basically no people at all on the small streets of Spitalfields at these hours?

Which is it?
There are people nearly always on the streets and you could even go fetch suppers from a chandlery open at even 1 am. Enough for witnesses to a few things regarding the case. They don't have to be packed but you can have a few hundred going about Whitechapel in total at those hours.

However this doesn't help your case because it means an investigator re-visiting the scenes of the crime at the appropriate hours would eventually see the same fella plodding along.

Not worth checking for a big long sharp scary blade?

Your model has him re-visiting the crime scenes of Nichols, Chapman and Kelly at least 5 days per week, at the same hours they were killed.

Quote:
In any case, I don´t think that I have seen a single report of PC:s searching the dwellers of the East End or read about such measures being taken.
Okay, it's a fair question. I suppose it's out there for any takers. Obviously, we just mean stopped and searched without any reasons given in this context as we have plenty of examples of PCs stopping people with good reason and bringing them to the station to be searched.
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  #407  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:58 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Fish,
It appears you are not reading it correctly,

Maybe this is because you appear to have interpreted my original post to Gary as being aimed at your good self.

The original comments were not aim exclusively at you, but Lechmere supporters in general, some of whom in my experience on Say Facebook, are not as open minded as yourself, and are fixed on that Lechmere must be the killer.

You gave your reasons for accepting one alternative over another, my comments were intended to accept your personal reasoning, but to question if such applied to other supporters.

If someone says they have done something, one either has to accept it or reject it surely, and just as I accept that you had no control over the Documentary, I accept that you have considered.

I hope that has clarified the posts


Steve
Oh, it does - when I asked you specifically about my considering of the alternatives, you chose to answer in a generalized manner instead.
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  #408  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:01 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
Convergence from the outskirts to the centre of Whitechapel and onwards to the city centre means it gets busier on the main roads and not so empty.



There are people nearly always on the streets and you could even go fetch suppers from a chandlery open at even 1 am. Enough for witnesses to a few things regarding the case. They don't have to be packed but you can have a few hundred going about Whitechapel in total at those hours.

However this doesn't help your case because it means an investigator re-visiting the scenes of the crime at the appropriate hours would eventually see the same fella plodding along.

Not worth checking for a big long sharp scary blade?

Your model has him re-visiting the crime scenes of Nichols, Chapman and Kelly at least 5 days per week, at the same hours they were killed.



Okay, it's a fair question. I suppose it's out there for any takers. Obviously, we just mean stopped and searched without any reasons given in this context as we have plenty of examples of PCs stopping people with good reason and bringing them to the station to be searched.
Nothing changes here. The back streets WERE empty, as witnessed about by the participants of the drama. Completely so. Whether there were people on the larger streets is neither here nor there.

And I did not say that it would not be worth checking the Eastenders for knives, I said that it was probably never done. If it is never done, there is no knowing if it would have been worthwhile doing so.
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  #409  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:08 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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My last post for the evening. Monty claimed that he apologized for stating that I and Edward milked relatives of the Bethnal Green Tube disaster on their money.

If he had done so, I would not have brought it up on this thread.

I checked back, since I had no memory of any apology. And indeed, none was to be found.

The information I have from Edward is in line with this - he remembers no such apology either.

If Monty can produce that apology, it would be nice. Either from back then or now, in which case it will be six years overdue.

If I am wrong, I apologize in advance.
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  #410  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:37 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
There were THOUSANDS of people living there who were as likely or likelier than Lechmere to be the killer. Or so I´m told.
That's not what you've been told at all. What you've been told is this:

There were many thousands of men living in Whitechapel, among whom there would have been scores of dodgy characters, and several of these would prove to be much stronger Ripper candidates than Cross if we knew more about them. We can be sure of this on statistical grounds alone.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 11-14-2018 at 01:39 PM.
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