Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Non-Fiction: "Ripperland" by Andrew Firth - by Herlock Sholmes 4 minutes ago.
Witnesses: 36 Berner Street............... - by Robert 5 minutes ago.
Non-Fiction: "Ripperland" by Andrew Firth - by Andrew Firth 28 minutes ago.
Witnesses: 36 Berner Street............... - by Robert 49 minutes ago.
Non-Fiction: "Ripperland" by Andrew Firth - by Herlock Sholmes 1 hour and 8 minutes ago.
Non-Fiction: "Ripperland" by Andrew Firth - by Andrew Firth 2 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Witnesses: 36 Berner Street............... - (20 posts)
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - (6 posts)
Non-Fiction: "Ripperland" by Andrew Firth - (4 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Did Mary Kelly meet the Bethnal Green Botherer? - (4 posts)
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - (3 posts)
Torso Killings: JtR failed amputation. Torso killer was successful. - (2 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #391  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:29 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,550
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
Thanks, Steve, I believe it was Kattrup. That’ll help me track it down.

Did I imply it was conclusive? It’s possible that he gave both names but the press and the police neglected to take note of the more important one I suppose.
Kattrup was involved, but to be fair, I think that David Orsam made the main effort, Gary. Not sure, but thatīs how I remember it.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #392  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:32 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,550
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
I believe that is a very fair position to take, given the family history. I don't find it strange at all. It is this type of "bigger picture" attitude that I find the hardline, Lechmere supporters just are not prepared to consider.
Steve
Oh, please! I have considered it a hundred times and I have said as many times that it may well be that he used Cross to protect the Lechmere name. I do, however, find the sifting of information he seems to have made a very good reason to opt for him wanting to conceal information from those who read the paper reports.
That is preferring one version over another for informed reasons - not being "unprepared to consider" the alternatives.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #393  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:35 AM
Batman Batman is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Batman:
What's Cross doing with a Liston knife going to work down Buck's Row?

What was Ted Bundy doing, driving to Lake Sammamish with handcuffs, a ligature and a crowbar in his car? The same thing as Lechmere: looking for prey.
Ah is this really a good example? Ted Bundy got caught with his rape and murder kit in the trunk.

Quote:
Batman: How did Cross avoid being caught with a knife when he is out at an hour going to work when JtR was striking and 500+ PCs (on shift work) actively looking for JtR, especially in the early hours?

So now the police frisked all people out in the streets...? I thought they were all up at Aldgate, safeguarding that noone passed there.
Don't you think that sort of checking would be at the hours around murder scenes most of all?

All it would take is one investigator to visit these scenes at these hours and they would be seeing the same people on their route to work, no?
__________________
Bona fide canonical and then some.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #394  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:35 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,550
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
No, instead he is wearing his 'I am walking past a few murder scenes at the same time they were murdered, every day' badge and yet not a single investigator staked out a single crime scene to witness this individual walk by at the right time and right place, as per your model?

At the very least don't you think a quick search for a potential weapon would have ensued should such a person be noted?

Cross must be walking by the same crime scenes in the "way to work" model with a liston knife.
Eh... knife. Not necessarily Liston knife. We donīt know that at all. Long blade, sharp, pointed, probably double-edged. Thatīs it. Claiming it was a Liston knife puts the medical occupation in the hair-cross in what may be an unfair manner.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #395  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:38 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,550
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
Ah is this really a good example? Ted Bundy got caught with his rape and murder kit in the trunk.



Don't you think that sort of checking would be at the hours around murder scenes most of all?

All it would take is one investigator to visit these scenes at these hours and they would be seeing the same people on their route to work, no?
Yes, itīs a good example.

No, I donīt think that they searched the many Eastenders on the streets.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #396  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:41 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,550
Default

If we - for some unfathomable reason - should decide to revisit the aim of the thread, Iīd say that it has been pretty conclusively laid down that people cannot only kill within the parish where they live. Equally, it has been shown that geographic profiling is only useful if the perpetrators searched for kill in relation to their home addresses. Once something like a work trek is introduced, the model fails to work.

Just saying.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #397  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:56 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South london
Posts: 4,435
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Oh, please! I have considered it a hundred times and I have said as many times that it may well be that he used Cross to protect the Lechmere name. I do, however, find the sifting of information he seems to have made a very good reason to opt for him wanting to conceal information from those who read the paper reports.
That is preferring one version over another for informed reasons - not being "unprepared to consider" the alternatives.
That depends if one truly considers the alternatives rather than just paying lip service to the suggestion. One has to accept that you have done so as you say you have. Just has one accepts that you had no control over some of the comments in the Documentary.


Steve

Last edited by Elamarna : 11-14-2018 at 12:09 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #398  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:07 PM
Batman Batman is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,916
Default Your model including re-visiting the scenes of the crime at the same hours

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
No, I donīt think that they searched the many Eastenders on the streets.
How many were on Buck's row when Nichols was found?

Notice I said...

Quote:
All it would take is one investigator to visit these scenes at these hours and they would be seeing the same people on their route to work, no?
Meaning, in your route to work model, investigators re-visiting the scene of the crimes, could help but fail to notice the same worker re-visiting the scenes of the crimes, at the exact times they were murdered, according to your model.
__________________
Bona fide canonical and then some.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #399  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:17 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 11,458
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
Ah is this really a good example? Ted Bundy got caught with his rape and murder kit in the trunk.
At least Bundy had a trunk, and with a car attached, whereas JTR had to make do with getting to (and from) his victims on foot, with little more than the clothes on his back in which to hide his knife and stash his trophies. Given these constraints, I seriously doubt that he'd have strayed far from home, and I doubt that he'd have had anything planned for quite some time after a successful kill. Therefore, the idea that he was a pedestrian commuter from Bethnal Green en route to start a shift of work just doesn't ring true.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #400  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:23 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,550
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
That depends if one truly considers the alternatives rather than just paying lip service to the suggestion. One has to accept that you have done so as you say you have. Just has one accepts that you had no control over some of the comments in the Documentary.


Steve
Am I reading this right, Steve? Are you saying that I may well just have been "paying lip" to the suggestion? Instead of simply accepting that I really do consider what I say I consider?
And why are you talking about how you "have to accept" that I am honest about this?
You donīt have to accept anything. If you think I am deluded or a liar or anythin g along those lines, then say so by all means. I would not want any beating about the bush, and I certainly donīt pull any punches when I find your posts lacking in any way. So be my guest!
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.