Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Motive, Method and Madness: Time after Time: Did JtR have a watch? - by Joshua Rogan 7 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Time after Time: Did JtR have a watch? - by Batman 1 hour and 21 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - by Wolf Vanderlinden 1 hour and 29 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - by Wolf Vanderlinden 2 hours ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Time after Time: Did JtR have a watch? - by DJA 2 hours ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Time after Time: Did JtR have a watch? - by Simon Wood 3 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Time after Time: Did JtR have a watch? - (12 posts)
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - (9 posts)
Torso Killings: JtR failed amputation. Torso killer was successful. - (2 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Media > Books > Non-Fiction

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #71  
Old 11-14-2018, 06:39 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: The West Midlands
Posts: 2,837
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
It's ok Caz, i am so wrapped up in Bucks Row work, i didn't pick it up.


Steve
Wake up Steve old chap. Is that Scottish air slowing you down
__________________
Regards

Herlock






"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 11-14-2018, 06:46 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South london
Posts: 4,435
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Wake up Steve old chap. Is that Scottish air slowing you down
Yes the reduction in polluted air is wonderful, means I don't cough all the time.


Steve
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 11-14-2018, 10:06 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by caz View Post
I agree that copy cat murder sounds more Hollywood than grim reality, Abby.

That said, the torso murders [deaths/manslaughters?] don't appear to me to reflect any kind of attempt to copy the way the ripper rolled, so I'm not sure what criteria are being used to argue that the same killer fits all. I look forward to finding out.

From what I've read to date, the ripper and torso cases seem to me to be entirely independent of one another, not so coincidentally unfolding at a time when we know such series were emerging as a recognisable phenomenon of modern life in 'civilised' societies. Cream anyone? Klosowski?

Love,

Caz
X
Hi Caz
I kind of look at it another way-at this early time when serial killing was just emerging and it was relatively rare-whats the chances that two serial killers-post mortem mutilaters at that- appear at the same time and place? added to that the similarities (and yes there are differences, I just see more similarities) between the two:

Same time and place
same victimology
probable ruse involved to get victims where killer wanted them
internal and external parts targeted
no Overt attempt to hide
no overt sexual activity
knife used
abdoman targeted with flaps of flesh from stomach area removed

and I just see lean to them being the same man.


itll be interesting to read this book and get another (non casebook) opinion on it.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 11-14-2018, 10:37 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 11,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi Caz
I kind of look at it another way-at this early time when serial killing was just emerging
I don't think that serial killing was a new phenomenon at the time. On the contrary, it's probably as old as humankind.
Quote:
abdoman targeted
Not the case in the majority of the torso murders; even in those where it happened, there are eminently (and rather obvious) practical reasons why the dismemberer(s) cut open the abdomen.
Quote:
with flaps of flesh from stomach area removed
To paraphrase a well-known saying: Diff'rent flaps for diff'rent chaps.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

Last edited by Sam Flynn : 11-14-2018 at 10:39 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:37 PM
John G John G is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
I don't think that serial killing was a new phenomenon at the time. On the contrary, it's probably as old as humankind.
Not the case in the majority of the torso murders; even in those where it happened, there are eminently (and rather obvious) practical reasons why the dismemberer(s) cut open the abdomen.
To paraphrase a well-known saying: Diff'rent flaps for diff'rent chaps.
I agree. Defensive dismemberers do sometimes remove "flaps of skin". And I think the Torso perpetrator was an offensive/defensive dismemberer.

Last edited by John G : 11-14-2018 at 12:40 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:54 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,493
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
The group doesn’t have a head - it’s an anarchist group - but they’re ‘armless (except when they get legless).
A group that hasn´t any legs to stand on is not a very useful group, is it?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:55 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,493
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John G View Post
I agree. Defensive dismemberers do sometimes remove "flaps of skin". And I think the Torso perpetrator was an offensive/defensive dismemberer.
Can you name any such dismemberment case where the abdominal wall was removed in flaps, John?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:56 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,493
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
To paraphrase a well-known saying: Diff'rent flaps for diff'rent chaps.
And we know that the flaps were different inbetween the Chapman/Kelly cases and the Jackson case, because...?

Oh, I see. We don´t know that. We just make it up.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:04 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
I don't think that serial killing was a new phenomenon at the time. On the contrary, it's probably as old as humankind.
Not the case in the majority of the torso murders; even in those where it happened, there are eminently (and rather obvious) practical reasons why the dismemberer(s) cut open the abdomen.
To paraphrase a well-known saying: Diff'rent flaps for diff'rent chaps.
Hi Sam
Quote:
I don't think that serial killing was a new phenomenon at the time. On the contrary, it's probably as old as humankind.
I think that the rise of modern serial killing probably got its start (or at least took off) as a result of the Industrial revolution, rise of populations in city and towns and the increase of leisure time. and increase of flow of information and the press. sure there were always serial killers but not anything even close to what started in late nineteenth century. and continued to build into the 20th century. to me its like a phase transition ocurred.

and by the late 1800s early 1900s it had gotten to the point(flow and recording of info and the press) if there was a serial killer we would hear about it. In the decade 1880-1890 you could probably count the number of serial killers operating in the world on one hand. that two such creatures were operating at the same time in the same city who both just happened to be interested in post mortem mutilation is just a tad too much coincidence for me.


im really excited to read this book and get a Casebook independent view on it.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:28 PM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
A group that hasn´t any legs to stand on is not a very useful group, is it?
In Glasgow we would call them "Short Arsed Shuggies".
😉
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.