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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #331  
Old 11-13-2018, 11:30 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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You can clearly see here that your answers/replies are suspect driven. Simply giving Crow the benefit of the doubt, but not Cross.

For example, with 1, we could ask why Cross was killing haphazardly on his route to work? 2, is trying to get Crow out of Whitechapel altogether because him operating a cab in Whitechapel takes him also past the murder scenes. 3, are obviously still connections. 5, is that Crow meets the conditions for Rossmo. He lives in the hot zone. 6,7, your answer here gives Crow the benefit of the doubt over his story, but just doubts Cross' story.
You may need to be aware that Gary Barnett does not favour Charles Lechmere as the killer. Accordingly calling him suspect-driven becomes very silly.

I am grateful that somebody as well read up and discerning as him has the moral stature to acknowledge Lechmere´s value as a suspect. It makes a welcome change to the ones who do not have equal levels of knowledge and insight but who nevertheless take it upon themselves to discard Charles Lechmere on very loose grounds - or no grounds at all.
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  #332  
Old 11-13-2018, 11:34 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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He gave his name as Cross. He did. Himself.

Monty
Yes, and when he decided which name to be listed by officially, he gave the name Lechmere. He did. Himself.
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  #333  
Old 11-13-2018, 11:38 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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There is no prima facie reason to suppose that the 1873 Battersea torso was the work of the Whitechapel Ripper of 1888 but, because you believe the contrary, your perception of Crow's candidacy for the Ripper is compromised.

This is precisely why building theories by combining speculation and subjective opinion is so dangerous.
99% of suspect theories are built on speculation and subjective opinion.

It’s how the case shall be solved.

Monty
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  #334  
Old 11-13-2018, 11:38 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
You can clearly see here that your answers/replies are suspect driven. Simply giving Crow the benefit of the doubt, but not Cross.

For example, with 1, we could ask why Cross was killing haphazardly on his route to work? 2, is trying to get Crow out of Whitechapel altogether because him operating a cab in Whitechapel takes him also past the murder scenes. 3, are obviously still connections. 5, is that Crow meets the conditions for Rossmo. He lives in the hot zone. 6,7, your answer here gives Crow the benefit of the doubt over his story, but just doubts Cross' story.
Not at all. I'm reacting to your obvious bias in favour of Crow.
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  #335  
Old 11-13-2018, 11:47 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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Yes, and when he decided which name to be listed by officially, he gave the name Lechmere. He did. Himself.
So you have stated.

Yet he, himself, confirmed his name at inquest, under oath, in view of those in attendance.

The interpretated use of Lechmere is an attempt to infer guilt by others, Ed, yourself.

See Gareth’s post above about suggestive opinion.

Monty.
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  #336  
Old 11-13-2018, 11:56 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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So you have stated.

Yet he, himself, confirmed his name at inquest, under oath, in view of those in attendance.

The interpretated use of Lechmere is an attempt to infer guilt my others, Ed, yourself.

See Gareth’s post above about suggestive opinion.

Monty.
Of course, this works in two ways - it can just as easily be claimed that calling him Cross is to take his side. Perhaps that illuded you? For whatever reason?

What bears significance here is that we know that he used the name Lechmere on occasions when he was in contact with the authorities. A hundred times and more.

What we do NOT have is any evidence that he ever strayed from this habit, other than possibly in connection with another violent death some years before.

No matter how many possible explanations we provide him with for having that sudden change of mind when he spoke to the police, we are left with this fact - it is therefore an anomaly, and as I said on another thread, if there is anything an innocent man should avoid, then that is anomalies.

To claim that pointing this anomaly out is combined with a vicious lust for tarnishing Lechmere is daft, quite frankly. You may wish to sweep it under the carpet, claiming that such a thing is in line with an unbiased approach on your behalf, but I believe most people are fully able to see the implications of this desire of yours.

I hope we are clear on how it works now.
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  #337  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:06 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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He gave his name as Cross. He did. Himself.

Monty
Yes, and that's rather odd.

Someone once trawled through the Old Bailey records and came up with a long list of men who identified themselves by a surname other than that on their birth certs. I think the intention was to show that adopting a step parent's name etc and using it in court was a common occurrence. As indeed it was. But the reason we knew it had happened was that in every case the accused/witness also felt it appropriate to reveal their 'real' name.

'My name is Joe Bloggs, but I go by the name of Smith which is my stepfather's name' kind of thing.

Curiously, Charles Lechmere didn't do that. And the only other time we know he may have used the name Cross was when he killed a child with his cart. I say may, because it's possible that the driver of the cart was another Charles Cross who worked for Pickfords. I'm sure there's no need for me to repeat the mantra about the 100+ times he used the name Lechmere in his dealings with the authorities.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 11-14-2018 at 12:09 AM.
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  #338  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:09 AM
Monty Monty is offline
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Of course, this works in two ways - it can just as easily be claimed that calling him Cross is to take his side. Perhaps that illuded you? For whatever reason?

What bears significance here is that we know that he used the name Lechmere on occasions when he was in contact with the authorities. A hundred times and more.

What we do NOT have is any evidence that he ever strayed from this habit, other than possibly in connection with another violent death some years before.

No matter how many possible explanations we provide him with for having that sudden change of mind when he spoke to the police, we are left with this fact - it is therefore an anomaly, and as I said on another thread, if there is anything an innocent man should avoid, then that is anomalies.

To claim that pointing this anomaly out is combined with a vicious lust for tarnishing Lechmere is daft, quite frankly. You may wish to sweep it under the carpet, claiming that such a thing is in line with an unbiased approach on your behalf, but I believe most people are fully able to see the implications of this desire of yours.

I hope we are clear on how it works now.
This desire of mine?

Your post gives a lot away. The need to justify clear.

The fact remains he stated his name as Cross. From his mouth. He did.

Again, you assume this event was a one off. You claim it as a diversion. As stated before, there are many reasons why he may chose to use multiple names (a trait common for the era).

Gary asked a question. I answered.

I have no horse in this suspect race, unlike yourself. Therefore no bias, unlike yourself.

Monty
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  #339  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:15 AM
Monty Monty is offline
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Yes, and that's rather odd.

Someone once trawled through the Old Bailey records and came up with a long list of men who identified themselves by a surname other than that on their birth certs. I think the intention was to show that adopting a step parent's name etc and using it in court was a common occurrence. As indeed it was. But the reason we knew it had happened was that in every case the accused/witness also felt it appropriate to reveal their 'real' name.

'My name is Joe Bloggs, but I go by the name of Smith which is my stepfather's name' kind of thing.

Curiously, Charles Lechmere didn't do that. And the only other time we know he may have used the name Cross was when he killed a child with his cart. I say may, because it's possible that the driver of the cart was another Charles Cross who worked for Pickfords. I'm sure there's no need for me to repeat the mantra about the 100+ times he used the name Lechmere in his dealings with the authorities.
Cross’s position is unique Gary.

Monty
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  #340  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:28 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Cross’s position is unique Gary.

Monty
We're all unique, Neil.
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