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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #281  
Old 11-13-2018, 07:50 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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all right now its just getting goofy lol
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #282  
Old 11-13-2018, 07:55 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Quote:
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Here´s a challenge for you, Jon. You wrote in a post around 2013 "We´ll see who remembers Cross as a suspect in ten years time!"

We´re halfways now, and it seems to me that your misgivings may have been sorely unwarranted.

But hey, let me return the gesture and say the exact same thing about Alfred Crowe - let´s return to him in ten years time and check his suspect status. There is a lot of enthusiasm about his viability as the Ripper out here today, so it should be interesting to see whether those high hopes stand the test of time. After all, bad suspects will wither away while good ones will stand tall.

Let´s check in 2028, shall we?
Au contraire, Christer !!
I believe I raised the same points about Crow a few years ago.
So we may be half way there already.
I`ll try and locate it.
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  #283  
Old 11-13-2018, 07:58 AM
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The bottom line is obviously that Crow is no more a 'suspect' than Cross is, even if he did win 4 - 2, it was just a win using the same criteria for making Cross a 'suspect'.

In the end, all we have are persons of interest at best, however, in the contemporary, investigators classed them as witnesses and nothing more.
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  #284  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:15 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Au contraire, Christer !!
I believe I raised the same points about Crow a few years ago.
So we may be half way there already.
I`ll try and locate it.
Strange, is it not, that I cannot remember that Crow has ever been mentioned in this type of context. I bet, however, that you remember that Lechmere has...?

When is the documentary about Alfred the Ripper due? Where are the dissertations? Who are the believers? You and Batman? Or only Batman? Or noone?

Last edited by Fisherman : 11-13-2018 at 08:17 AM.
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  #285  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:15 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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...investigators classed them as witnesses and nothing more.
And that proves...what?

Last edited by Fisherman : 11-13-2018 at 08:18 AM.
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  #286  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:22 AM
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And that proves...what?
That one uses the term suspect carefully and not haphazardly. I don't mind Kozminski being classed as a suspect because he was given that official designation it seems. I don't mind Chapman being associated with JtR because the guy was a stone-cold murderer. The same goes for a lot of the suspects and many of them are demonstrably rotten by the nature of their crimes. The fact they are criminals or dangerous is what allows us that leeway.

However when someone has no evidence of their 'suspect' so much as breaking the law and they just appear to be helping both unfortunates and officers, then to make them into a 'suspect' is a big claim...

... and big claims require big evidence to support that.

What is the big evidence to support Cross warrants such a designation as a suspect?
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  #287  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:34 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Strange, is it not, that I cannot remember that Crow has ever been mentioned in this type of context. I bet, however, that you remember that Lechmere has...?

When is the documentary about Alfred the Ripper due? Where are the dissertations? Who are the believers? You and Batman? Or only Batman? Or noone?
Only the book at the moment ..
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  #288  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:35 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Well, I´d say that since the Ripper murders are clearly connected with the Torso murders, and since the Torso murders started in 1873, Crow must be rather an unlikely killer.
There is no prima facie reason to suppose that the 1873 Battersea torso was the work of the Whitechapel Ripper of 1888 but, because you believe the contrary, your perception of Crow's candidacy for the Ripper is compromised.

This is precisely why building theories by combining speculation and subjective opinion is so dangerous.
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  #289  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Strange, is it not, that I cannot remember that Crow has ever been mentioned in this type of context. I bet, however, that you remember that Lechmere has...?

When is the documentary about Alfred the Ripper due? Where are the dissertations? Who are the believers? You and Batman? Or only Batman? Or noone?
That actually makes Crow a better candidate, because Cross was in the public mind for longer when the press stopped linking Smith, Tabram and Nichols, despite investigators mostly linking Tabram with Nichols and a few had Smith in there also. It seems McNaughton based his C5 on Bond's examination of Kelly and meta-analysis of the other murders starting with Nichols because that is all Anderson had provided him with. Meaning witnesses for Tabram would have slipped through easier, if one of them was JtR.
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  #290  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:41 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
That one uses the term suspect carefully and not haphazardly. I don't mind Kozminski being classed as a suspect because he was given that official designation it seems. I don't mind Chapman being associated with JtR because the guy was a stone-cold murderer. The same goes for a lot of the suspects and many of them are demonstrably rotten by the nature of their crimes. The fact they are criminals or dangerous is what allows us that leeway.

However when someone has no evidence of their 'suspect' so much as breaking the law and they just appear to be helping both unfortunates and officers, then to make them into a 'suspect' is a big claim...

... and big claims require big evidence to support that.

What is the big evidence to support Cross warrants such a designation as a suspect?
When the police had access to Lechmere, the main part of the crimes had not been perpetrated. He had presented himself to the police and he was not what a criminal anthropologist would look for. It is not hard to understand why they did not suspect him.

We should, though, owing to a combination of circumstances. And we do.
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